Ep 30 Divine Worth Podcast: God’s Relentless Love

Karen Papin: [00:00:00] Welcome to the divine worth podcast, where we are letting go of our self doubt anxiety, fear, and limiting beliefs so that we can step into the divine roles that God has for us. I am your host life coach, Karen Pappin, and together we are embracing our divine worth. Welcome to the divine worth podcast.

This week, we have a special guest. Her name is Shima Baughman. And in this episode, she really dives into understanding our divine worth is beyond worldly accomplishments. And also how God not only relentlessly pursues us, but also how we can relentlessly pursue God and finding that peace and that purpose, that.

Centering our lives around God can provide. So with that, I’m going to go ahead and have Shima introduce herself.

Shima Baughman: Hi, I’m Shima Baughman. I’m a law professor. I teach about criminal law and I’m a mom. I have five children ranging from the [00:01:00] ages of 19 to 19 months, three boys and two girls, they’re my joy. And I, in my work, I’ve done some publishing.

I have three books, a textbook, a student treatise and a. A book about bail, looking at mass incarceration is something I’ve done. For a large part of my career, I’m also an immigrant from Iran. I came when I was seven and through miraculous means our family joined the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and then decided to stay in America so we could practice our religion freely.

And that’s kind of my background. We moved around a lot. I started in California and moved to Las Vegas and Pennsylvania, ended up in upstate New York. That’s where my family settled. And I grew up in the church and ended up wanting to go to BYU. So I went to BYU, studied sociology there. And I, I did a law degree there and I did some work in New York after a law firm clerked, did some criminal defense work in Africa, and then ended up back teaching at BYU.

I was there for 3 years. I had this awesome opportunity to go to the University of [00:02:00] Utah to teach there for 10 years. I was associate dean there, never thought about leaving, but then I had this opportunity. Well, I actually was praying to figure out what to do with my life and how to build the kingdom of God better.

I was thinking about, you know, my covenants and how important it was that I had covenanted to build God’s kingdom as the most important thing I do. And I thought, well, am I doing this enough with my criminal justice workers or more I could be doing? And through my work. God revealed to me, uh, all of these things that my scholar, you know, other scholars that were non-secular necessarily, you know, they weren’t necessarily religious, but they were talking about what unique, uh, contributions, communities of faith and, you know, faith leaders and faith me members that are of the church and other churches.

We’re doing to increase the chances of people from leaving crime and having a fair shake in the criminal justice system. So I became interested in getting interested in studying that, which led me back to you. [00:03:00] I never planned on leaving the University of Utah. I live right by it. I love it. But this opportunity came to me to go to you.

So in 2023, I went back to teaching at you and I’m. What’s called a distinguished fellow at the Wheatley Institute, where we study the role of religion and how it helps benefit society. And so that’s like, I don’t know if that’s too much of a bio, but that’s kind of my, what’s happened. What’s brought me here.

Yeah,

Karen Papin: that’s awesome. Shima, I’m really excited to have you on here. I, I have, um, I’ve been following you on Instagram for a little while now and I’ve seen like other podcasts that you’ve done and articles that you’ve written. So I, I’m really excited to have you on here. And first off, I want to ask, like, how specifically, how have you seen God’s love for you?

Throughout this whole process and

Shima Baughman: throughout your life. Oh, it’s so good. And that’s probably why I gave you that full detailed bio because I feel like I’ve seen God’s hand in my life since I was a child. I [00:04:00] remember from the time I was two and a half, my mom actually was ripped from under me. I was sitting on her lap as a toddler.

We had a family party. When men came to our door and barged in basically and arrested my mother for treason, because she was fighting for freedom of religion and speech and all these other freedoms that she lacked in this, um, in Iran, where we lived. And I remember, you know, her being taken away, but then.

Having family to step in and show us seamlessly, like how an extended family can care for kids. I, there’s two kids my mom had before when she was in prison and he was gone for two and a half years. And we, I mean, we missed her, but we were very well taken care of by my grandmother, my dad’s sisters. And so many people just loved us.

We had this beautiful opportunity to go visit my mom in prison and stay with her for a few weeks, which is another kind of divine gift. No other people that were incarcerated in these political prisons had the opportunity to go be with their mom. And I think God really wanted me to see that because that first initial exposure to [00:05:00] incarceration and people being treated unfairly really kind of stuck in my mind is like, I want to study social problems.

I want to study how to make things better. And as he led our hand, I mean, The miracles I saw in God’s love when we came to America and. Miraculously, right? We’re only supposed to be here for one year. And within a few months of us being in the U. S., God prompts a woman. She’s a nurse at UCLA. Her name’s Maryam.

She’s a member of the church and is also Persian. So she speaks our native language and she has this prompting not once, but twice and ignores it to go talk to my dad about the church because as we do, it’s like, I don’t know. It’s awkward. I don’t want to. And then the third time she just remembers distinctly, he was sitting, he was standing at a water fountain getting a drink and she’s like, I have to go talk to him about the church.

This is the third prompting that’s common. To when invited him and immediately, you know, we went to her Christmas party into her home. She had a family home evening at her home that she invited us to. And my mom happened to see, you know, like, through divine love, right through God’s hand, a pamphlet about how families can be together forever.

And she thought, [00:06:00] what a beautiful idea. I would, I would love to learn more. Learned about the church ended up getting baptized changing the trajectory of our entire lives. I mean, I think of God’s hand, right? And then 2nd, Nephi, it talks about all those that are that come to America have been brought by the hand of the Lord, like, you think about Lehi and his family and.

I truly feel like God’s divine love and his hand brought us to this country to be able to not only just have freedom, but be able to have the opportunity to choose him again, right? Choose Jesus Christ, like we did in the pre mortal existence, but we never would have had that opportunity in Iran. We never would have had the choice to choose.

It wasn’t an option there. And now, I mean, fast forward, you know, 25 years, um, or longer, I guess. No, how long has it been? I don’t know. I’m 45 now. So do the math. I came when I was seven, but fast forward now, the people that encounter Jesus in Iran. It’s secret. It’s in these like secret, you know, parties late at night where they can get arrested and killed for [00:07:00] and that would have been the only way I would have found Jesus Christ.

But because God saved us and allowed us this opportunity to come to America, we were able to find the church of Jesus Christ, Larry Saints, which changed all of our lives. I mean, we are able to stay in this country, not because of the church, but because my mom had political asylum, but yeah, It was a reason why we stayed.

We were going to come for one year and go back to our life, very comfortable life in Iran. My dad was a neurosurgeon. You know, we had land and property and all these things, and they left all of it so that we could have these freedoms of religion and education and all these opportunities that we’d have is they had three daughters and they just felt really strongly.

But, but, um, you know, fast forwarding, I just think. Every piece of my life, I felt God’s love. I felt that he’s guiding me and that’s why I keep turning to him every, hopefully more often than I should. But at least every few years I’m like, am I still doing what you want? Like as a whole, right. As a, you know, holistic, like with children, with career.

And I’m just felt so guided in times where it didn’t make sense. Like I had a child when I was 44, which like no one does that. How does that [00:08:00] even work? And we’d had infertility and all the, we had surrogates and all these things, but I just feel like God’s love. Has guided me his, his, you know, divine path for me has been very clear through how he showed me love and comfort when things don’t go well through a divorce.

Like, that was hard, but I felt his love more intensely in those periods than I have at any other time. So I just think I have felt his hand throughout. I’ve never I never could say I don’t believe in God because. I know for a fact in my heart and in my soul and my mind and every part of my body that he exists because he’s guided me and there’s no way to explain the miracles I’ve seen in my life besides God.

Karen Papin: Wow, Shiva, that is amazing. What I love about your story is that God is there in those difficult times. Yes, and it sounds like those are the times where he was like most apparent in your life was any any Heartache that you went through it’s like God’s there. He’s showing that [00:09:00] he’s there that he loves you and he will he will take care

Shima Baughman: It’s so good.

I, there was a devotional yesterday at BYU, Elder Duncan spoke and he’s saying that when he lost his wife, his wife tragically died very soon after he got married. He felt God’s love so much where everyone was like, wouldn’t you just like curse God now? Wouldn’t you just think like, how could God do this to me?

I just got married and had a baby. How could you take my wife away, but I feel similarly in my life, you know, when my mom was put in political prison, when we grew up in the U. S. without any of the comforts of home, like, we had nothing. My parents came with very little money. My mom had to work for the 1st time.

She never worked in her life. I mean, she was a political optimist and a mom and my dad was studying nights and working day. I mean, it was just. You know, such hard conditions, but I think I felt more love, like, the more difficult my life has been. And even in my own life with, you know, going through all the things I’ve gone through, like, the more darkness I feel, the more sadness or loneliness, the more I feel like I hear his voice [00:10:00] louder and I feel like he’s there when I turn to him and the answers are clear.

It’s almost like it’s, you know, some of the clearest answers I’ve received were in times where I was going through the most difficult pain in my life.

Karen Papin: Wow. So we’re talking about how God has kind of shown up in your life. I’m curious how you have seen that he believes in you too. Not, not just that love, but also how he believes in you.

Shima Baughman: No, I love that. I, um, I feel like, you know, as I think about my, like the hard things in my life where I’ve gone through things that were, you know, where I felt like I wasn’t sure about my worth and I wasn’t sure.

What my role was in God’s kingdom, where do I fit in? Like what, what, what am I, I don’t know when I just wasn’t sure about that. I feel like that’s like, as I mentioned earlier, it’s like God’s voice grew louder and reassuring me as you know, a woman in his church as a. [00:11:00] Divine daughter that he was aware singularly of me through the little things he did to show me like that, that comfort in times of difficulty of loneliness and all of these things that, like, I was being guided by him and I even think as, you know, as I’ve analyzed this.

His belief in us is so much more important than anyone else’s belief in us. I think, as I grew up, you know, very scholarly, well, it’s not scholarly, I guess, studious home where it was like straight A’s were more important than anything else. We didn’t have activities. There’s none of that. It was just, you get straight A’s, you become a doctor and that was so important.

And so, as I grew up, I really kind of measured my worth. A lot by my academics and my achievements, and I think it’s still a temptation for me as a scholar to, you know, measure my weight, uh, or my worthiness or my, you know, value in the world by what I produce. Um, I feel like in those moments of darkness where it’s like, who cares?

I remember, like, 1 of my darkest moments [00:12:00] in my life where I was going through divorce. I got 1 of my best publications. Offers from the University of Pennsylvania. It’s like a top four law review journal unheard. I’d never seen anything like that at this. And even though I got that and I felt like, thanks God, like throw me a bone in this time where I’m just crying every day and I’m feeling horrible going through a divorce.

And, but, but it didn’t matter. Right. It didn’t matter. And like, I even got another good publication, like to be clear, like it didn’t matter because what mattered was my, my, role with him my faith in him and what he thought of me as I think of it It’s the world would have you focus on self esteem and what is your you know value and how do you see yourself?

I think there’s so much inward reflection of like, how do you love yourself? And how do you are you giving yourself time off? And are you you know thinking about yourself and And I don’t think for me that as I’ve experienced God, that’s the right answer or the right question. It’s how does God see me?

How does God love me? How am [00:13:00] I, how does he believe in me? And it’s more of that divine esteem rather than self esteem, right? It’s not like I feel good or I believe in myself. Yes, I should believe in myself because God believes in me. Not for any other reason, not because I publish a lot, not because I’m.

Whatever, you know, done this and that because I’m a good athlete because I’m a good mother because I’m a good whatever and so that’s really what I’ve been taught in my hard times is what matters. Ultimately is God and what he believes in us and what and love of us and that’s divine esteem. And that’s what really motivates me is knowing I’m a daughter of God.

And my role here in this earth is to build his kingdom and to lead other people back to him. That is ultimately my goal. It’s not the papers. It’s not the publications. It’s not any of the other stuff. Even raising my kids is important, but ultimately I need to do whatever his will is for me to build his kingdom.

And so I, when I put that foremost, it helps me feel like the right purpose. I feel like [00:14:00] centered rather than distracted by kind of the achievements and, you know, popularity or prestige of my work, you know.

Karen Papin: Yeah, I love that. Why do you feel it’s so important to have that focus more on what does God see in me?

Shima Baughman: Yeah, I just, um, I just think Satan is powerful and cunning and everywhere. And I think as you are surrounded by, you know, the divisions of politics and the kind of, Temptation of social media to get you to compare yourself to others and kind of doubt your inherent worth or get you confused about what you should be seeking.

Like, should I be wanting that? Should I be wanting that? I’m none of these things that you feel less than because you’re not any of the other things you’re seeing in our brains as Jonathan Hyde, um, wrote this great book called the righteous mind. It’s before he wrote coddling of the American mind and righteous or anxious generation, which are both also good books.

But one [00:15:00] of the things he said in there that was so comforting to me is that. You know, as our brains are wired, we are meant to compare each other to others. And I do think Satan also uses that. He uses our brains to kind of compare ourselves and make us feel less than and, you know, envious and confused and scattered of like, what should I be pursuing?

And I just think when we focus on God and his focus for us, his, the divine identity that he sees in us that for me, you know, I’m a disciple of Christ. I’m a child of God. You know, I’m a covenant keeping daughter, which is who is looking to build the kingdom of God. It’s so much less distracting. It’s so much more peaceful because it doesn’t, my role is not your role and it’s not her role.

And I don’t have to look like do, I don’t have to make as much money as I don’t have to have as many followers as I don’t have to publish as many books as anyone else. It’s just between me and God. And it’s so much more comforting, right? It’s a beautiful feeling. It’s freeing that we have this relationship with God that [00:16:00] has a plan singularly for each of us.

And it’s not like the same one as anyone else. And I think, you know, for me, it’s easy to see, cause I am so like foreign in this land, right? It’s like, I was brought from Iran to this land. I live in Utah, which I have no family here. You know, my sister lives here now, but only came because I was here. And it’s, but I think that’s the way for everyone.

I know that God has that plan for all of us. And so, however, he brought us to the place we are today. He’s going to use us as a tool for him. And I think it’s exciting. It’s empowering. And it’s also. It gives me a lot of, like, self worth to know that, that he’s going to use me how he wants. And my role is just to figure out what that is.

And he’ll use the skills he gave me because he gave those skills uniquely to me. They’re not anyone else’s skills, right? And everyone’s different. We’re so unique. So I just, I love thinking about it that way.

Karen Papin: So good. I love that so much. Just the uniqueness of your journey and how it helped shape you into who God is, well, who God is wanting you to be.

[00:17:00] For the purpose that He has in store for you. As you were talking, it’s like, it’s just clarity. Like, when you’re focused on your divine worth, your divine identity, who God sees in you, it’s so much more clearer as to, okay, what is my next step? And as you were saying, just so much peace. Yeah. Because the world is chaotic, do this, do that, do this, do that.

Shima Baughman: And it’s in a, we’re to tend towards comparison of, I’m not doing what, and then we get distracted and busy and thinking about doing all the things we’d see everyone else doing. That seems like right for us to God would have us be more in peace and have us turn more to him. And typically I, when I turned to him, it was more like.

You don’t need to do and do and do, do just be still, you know, and you’re doing enough for me. And I think some people might be like, Oh, do this or do that. But for me, sometimes I think my temptation is just to try to do too much instead of just being still and, [00:18:00] and letting him guide me. Like I try to take control of things rather than allow him to move me as a piece.

Karen Papin: So what helps you to kind of let go of that control? And it really embraced his will.

Shima Baughman: Oh, that’s such a good question. Um, when I figure it out, I’ll let you know, but I haven’t. No, but the biggest thing, honestly, Karen, is, um, spending time in the house of the Lord. I think as I spend time in His house, as I’m wearing white, looking around at everybody else who looks the same as me, wearing pure white, symbolic of the atonement of our Savior, Jesus Christ, that cleanses all of us, that allows us all to have this love and joy.

Potential eternal life with him, with our heavenly parents. That’s what gives me peace and lets me simplify those answers. I was talking about where it’s like, what about this? What about that? I go to the temple and I sit in the classroom and God’s usually like, no, like you don’t need to do most of those things.

You know, you can just [00:19:00] love, or you can just be still, or he’ll bring words of comfort to my mind. I think that for me is my recipe to feeling my divine worth. Is spending time in his house, and I think of it similar to so when I, I remember when I got went through a divorce, you know, I would go to my parents house a lot.

I think I went twice a month. I would fly to California or I would drive there with my kids. Like, depending on if I had them or if I didn’t. And I remember just feeling this kind of like, calmness, like, okay, like, I’m okay. I got my parents, you know, because when I didn’t have my kids, like, I was still not used to that experience after I got divorced.

And I, um, to me, it’s like that, but, but, you know, 100 times better because it’s God and it’s. So pure and loving, but it’s like, I felt that love and acceptance of my parents house and people can relate to that. Right? When you can go to either parent or grandparent, whoever it is for you, sometimes it’s not parents, but that makes you feel loved no matter what, unconditionally and I feel that when I go to the house of the Lord.

And so it does center me in this, like, okay, like, God loves me. It’s going to be okay. [00:20:00] Whatever else is going on health challenges or other issues, right? I. It just centers me in like what’s important.

Karen Papin: That’s great. And I think that also helps with like overwhelmed too, because there’s so, so much, but yet going to the temple and just being, being still and focusing on that connection with God and really

Shima Baughman: just It really helped.

I know my husband used to have more anxiety in his life before we started going to the temple pretty regularly. He really rarely has it anymore. Like with any, I mean, real estate’s had a hard time lately, right? It’s like, there’s a lot of less deals in his industry. It’s like not an easy time to be for somebody in real estate, but because he goes to the temple, because he knows that God’s in control, he just has so much more peace.

I have other friends that have told me similar things, like friends that have had husbands lose their jobs or had really big financial or health concerns. And. You go to the temple and really it does give you that eternal perspective that I think we need that often. That’s why I think for me, it’s like, if I [00:21:00] don’t regularly go, it’s easy to get thinking like this is our life.

Like this is the world is everything. And when we go to the temple, we realize like, this is just like a stop the little stop, but we’re going to have some hardship, learn some things, progress, then go back to our real life, which is. Eternal life, it’s exaltation. It’s living with our heavenly parents and with Jesus Christ, which is incredibly much better than this life.

And it’s, you know, so anyway, it does remind you of why we’re here and what we’re doing. So it put things in perspective, like, yes, people are going to get cancer and people are going to die, and we’re going to have really hard things happen. Our kids are not going to turn out as we plan for them, and our lives are not going to turn out as we plan, but when we look at it as a blip in the course of eternity, and also that we’re here trying to become like Jesus, you know, not that we want more hard things, but the harder things we go through, the more challenges I know I’ve gone through, the more empathy I gain, the more patience I gain.

The more my [00:22:00] relationship grows with my savior, I understand what, you know, important he is in my life and how he is my fundamental, most important relationship. And I just think without those hard things and without the temple to put it in perspective, we’re lost.

Karen Papin: I love that. It’s a very, like President Nelson says, think celestial, pulls us out of this world.

The

Shima Baughman: things he’s told us, I mean, if you just even just, yeah, like think celestial, you know, regularly spend time in the house of the Lord. The Jesus is always the answer. Like those three alone have changed my life. I mean, not, not to say the other one where you said, you know, make a appointment with in the house of the Lord to keep it with exactness and joy.

I mean, so many of his statements in the last few years, I could not be more. Propose to what I should be doing, how I can be growing, how I can resist the, the division and sadness of our world and be happy despite it all. I think, yeah, I’m so grateful for President Nelson.

Karen Papin: One thing that I wanted to ask you about, if you are okay with sharing it, [00:23:00] is you wrote an article for LDS Living on the relentless pursuit of God.

And I loved how you kind of turned it around. In that article, you started talking about relentlessly pursuing God. Can you share more about that?

Shima Baughman: Of course, yeah, I think everyone was touched, including me, with Elder Kieran’s talk about how God is relentlessly pursuing us, right? Regardless of how we’ve sinned and all the mistakes we make, continue to make, He pursues us because He wants every last one of us to come back to Him.

That’s His whole purpose. You know, despite all the things he could do, it’s like to bring to pass the immortality of life of men and all of us. And so, as I was thinking about that, I wrote this article for LDS Living about how, you know, if God is relentlessly pursuing us, he also asks us to love him with all our hearts, our minds, our minds.

And how do we then also relentlessly pursue him? And in that article, I kind of, you know, thought about [00:24:00] the, the bride groom analogy is a strong one in the scriptures where Jesus is the bridegroom and we’re the bride and we’re seeking him. And so in thinking about that kind of analogy, right? Between somebody pursuing someone in a courtship or marriage situation, I thought, you know, as I was younger and had crushes as a kid, You know, I remember understanding the concept of relentless pursuit where I had a really, you know, a strong crush.

And I remember when I was in, um, I think it was my early young women’s, you know, early ages when you don’t know how to like, you know, think about crushes. But I remember there is one boy in our ward of 12 girls in this, in New York. And I remember all of us had this like massive crush on this one boy. He, he happened to be very cute and very nice too.

Um, but I remember, you know, thinking like, like I was, I thought about him all the time I, I, um, try to do things. So I could be around him. I, and, you know, just think of the things you [00:25:00] do when you have a crush, right? When you, or you’re when you’re pursuing your spouse, you know, or how they pursue you of, you think about them all the time.

You try to kind of do things to be in their sphere, you try to do things that they would approve of, like if you think they like you like to wear a certain, I don’t know, color or something like they have a favorite color, you might wear it or, you know, these types of things. And I think some of the same principles, obviously, not all of them can come clear to us as we’re thinking about how do I relentlessly pursue God?

Well, I can try to be in his house. Right. I can be there. I can be near him and feel his love. I can think about him often. And if I’m not thinking about it, you know, veer from thinking about Jesus Christ and thinking about things that are, you know, thoughts from Satan. I can put music on that might remind me of him.

I was talking to somebody yesterday who’s struggling with some addictions and I was like. And, you know, he was admonished to study scriptures an hour a day and I told him, what if you tried to study [00:26:00] 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes before bed, just because the more, you know, you think about these things or even split it up, like if you have time in the day, but I just think the more often we can center ourselves on our savior, Jesus Christ and our God, our relationship with God.

The more we can relentlessly pursue him and make him truly central in our lives and become his disciples. I mean, that’s what we’re trying to do is. Have it be so central. And a story that reminds me of this is I was talking to my class. My I’m a pursuit of happiness class. It’d be like law school. And I was sharing a story with them in a talk by elder or president Faust, where he talks about forgiveness.

And it’s a pretty miraculous story where he shares. With these Amish, uh, this Amish community that as a member of it, he’s a milkman and he basically goes crazy and decides to go to a school and shoot several of the kids. And then himself, it’s like [00:27:00] this mass shooting, very uncharacteristic, horrible, you know, one of those school shootings and the miraculous amazing thing about it is in like a typical society, people shine that person that.

And their family that have done this, but in this family immediately, you know, right after the funeral of these kids, there’s a funeral for this milkman and the families of those who have lost children go to this funeral, not only go to it, but they hug and embrace and, you know, show this forgiveness to the family of the milkman who were obviously devastated themselves.

And I just think that kind of like automatic discipleship ship only comes when we are constantly relentlessly pursuing God and trying to create this closeness with this son, Jesus Christ, that we can become like him because. For those Amish people, it’s not like they went through a period where they shunned this family.

It was so automatic that at the very funeral, right? The next day after they mourn their own kid, they go and they, they [00:28:00] comfort and forgive so quickly this other family that they should, I mean, legitimately have a right to. You know, separate themselves and have a year or longer where there’s like, we, I just can’t with you right now because of what I’ve gone through, but I just think if we do divinely, if we do relentlessly pursue God and all the ways that we are taught right through his word, reading his word in the scriptures, going to his house, listening to music that invokes feelings.

I think sometimes one of the best, easiest tools for me, if I’m not feeling The spirit of God and the Holy Ghost is putting on something music that reminds me of Jesus Christ that immediately like calms me down and says, okay, yes, let’s focus the center. So anyway, yeah.

Karen Papin: So what about those times where it’s like hard for us to kind of like you’re talking about forgiveness?

So that was one example that you used when we kind of get held up on how I’m really struggling to let this go. How do I let this go so that I can continue to pursue [00:29:00] you?

Shima Baughman: Yes. I love that. I think. So my sense of this, and this is like, it’s not gospel according to me, it’s just an interpretation of scriptures that I see.

When Christ says to the Samaritan woman that he is the living water and those who drink of him constantly are not thirsty, they will never have to drink again, right? There’s a lot of symbolism there. And of course it relates to baptism and covenants. But I think one of the things that makes me think of is, I think forgiveness is like that.

I think Jesus Christ is a living water. And in order to forgive someone permanently, it’s not like a one time thing. If you’ve lost a family member, that’s the most horrible thing, right? Someone murdered your child or, or other types of things that you go through. I think we constantly need to be drinking that living water, taking the atonement, wearing our garments that remind us of our savior sacrifice.

And continually being in his words and in his house, because without that living water, right? If you just drink it once and think, Oh, I forgive it. I’m done. It doesn’t help. And it doesn’t ever work because I think [00:30:00] our brains will like to bring back the pain that we’ve suffered. That’s a natural thing.

And I think Satan also does that. It’s like, remember that thing that person does, you need to be mad about that again. Right? And so if we don’t keep consuming this living water, that is our savior, Jesus Christ, it’s impossible to forgive. And I think. Yeah. As you know, we were talking about this in class yesterday.

Our class is about forgiveness, but I really do think it’s a constant process. It’s not a one time. Thing, just like the atonement of Jesus Christ. His atonement is a constant piece of our lives. It’s a constant companion with us as we daily repent and hourly repent. And, you know, and, and in the same forgive because forgiveness and repentance are so hand in hand, he says to those who will forgive, I will forgive, right?

Or I will choose who I will forgive. But you are required to forgive all men. So we don’t have a choice in forgiveness. Maybe God, you know, God obviously does, but we don’t. And that’s a hefty duty for those of us who have gone through hard things. But I think we can only do it through harnessing the power [00:31:00] of the miraculous, incredible atonement of our savior, Jesus Christ, that allows us to come back to him every hour, every day, sometimes, right?

When you go through hard things to like, help me forgive this person. How do I forgive? And God will take that weight away. I’ve seen that in my life that I have a testimony that my savior can take away The pain so that I can forgive again and again if I need to and usually for me. Yes, it’s again and again It’s not a one time forgiveness.

Most of the time. It’s a constant come back for the atonement Please and help me and then okay, I can let that go again. Let’s let’s come back again next time That’s what it is for me. How is it for you? How do you forgive?

Karen Papin: Oh, it’s, uh, that’s, that’s such a, yes, exactly. As you were, you mentioned the living water and I just visualized, like, just water flowing through me, like cleansing me, and then it’s like, it happens again, and then there’s that water again, flowing through, and, and that cleansing process, and, and that’s what it is.

It’s, [00:32:00] it’s a process. I think embracing that it’s a process is something that can be very healing for us and also kind of keep us from getting caught up in that, that shame.

Shima Baughman: That’s right.

Karen Papin: It’s like, just, it’s a process, except that it’s a process.

Shima Baughman: And as we are, right, we’re all works in progress. Like we don’t just stop sinning because we’ve learned last time we shouldn’t sin.

We sin, we have to forgive, we have to repent. All of it’s a process and that’s why I love like in our church, we have our garments, you know, we can wear every minute and it’s like, you don’t have to wait till Sunday to remember that you have this living water and this ability to cleanse yourself. We have it all day every day.

If we want as many times, almost all day, every day, unless for things that you can’t wear, but it’s a constant comfort to know that. Okay, he’s with us and we can use him when times we need to forgive or repent or just to feel peace when we feel Afraid or lonely or whatever we might feel that we know that he’s felt it too I think that’s [00:33:00] something that’s so beautiful to me where as I get older and have been married longer and You know, I have an amazing husband who I love so much and we’re about to celebrate our 10 year anniversary, which is amazing.

And I’m so happy about that. But at the same time, even though I love my husband, you know, I like daily constant companion in life is my savior. And it’s through him that I, uh, that’s my path to salvation. And of course, together, we believe that families are together. And so my husband and I both yoke together as well with the savior, but.

If I don’t seek that individual time with the Savior, I’m lost, even with the love of my life. And I think that’s something that, um, it, it provides me comfort and also kind of focus of, I think sometimes people think, oh, when I get married, then I’m, you know, good. I’ve, you know, check the box, you know, eternal marriage and, um, I have salvation covered.

But if we don’t keep holding on, clasping on to our Savior, It’s always lost for even a great marriage.

Karen Papin: You keep working [00:34:00] at having the Lord in your life, don’t you?

Shima Baughman: So true, it’s so true.

Karen Papin: So, do you have, like, or is there a scripture that comes to mind when you think divine worth? Divine worth, a scripture that comes to mind.

Shima Baughman: Hmm. Um, like the first one comes like Nephi being born of goodly parents, not exactly divine birth. I’m trying to think, what’s a good scripture of divine birth? I think of the young woman’s motto. That’s what comes to mind, right? I’m a daughter of. I have parents who love me and I, and we love him. I don’t know.

What’s your scripture that comes to mind for divine worth? I have a list. You probably have like a hundred. I know. I mean, why am I thinking of one

Karen Papin: scripture? But I love, I love that you bring up the young woman’s thing because it is so clearly right.

Shima Baughman: Yes. No, I think, I don’t know. Yeah. That’s what I think of.

Um, and obviously it’s based on scriptures, but I dunno, I just, [00:35:00] I don’t know. Divine worth in so much of the scriptures, right? And thinking about, like I said earlier, the, you know, the mission of God is to bring to pass the immortality, eternal life of man, like an all powerful God. Despite his ability to do anything and everything he wants created this amazing earth and entire ecosystem and universe that we have, whatever is that we see and discover every day, but yet his goal is us.

I mean, we are his number one item of business and only and most important. Right. And I just think, wow, that means we’re very important in the scheme of things. Like he really sees us as. So important, each of us, every single one, even those of us who’ve made mistakes and ended up in prison or, you know, have, um, feel dark, all of us have that incredible potential that each one of us, he’ll leave [00:36:00] 99 and go after the one.

I think that’s probably another one that I love that the parables in Luke 15, all three of them. I feel like give us a real take on divine word that God will go after us. And when he does, and he brings us back, it’s a party. It is a rejoicing party, right? With the prodigal son coming back or the lost sheep, there’s a party, the lost coin, the woman who loses her coin.

I just think every single one of us who comes back to God. Are rejoiced in, because we have so much worth in him.

Karen Papin: It’s a

Shima Baughman: letter from President Nelson, uh, quote, joy of repentance, like, that phrase,

Karen Papin: there’s such joy in it.

Shima Baughman: There is such joy in it. It is joy and repentance and joy and joy in being with him again, reunited with him.

I think one of the podcasts I’ve loved recently, it’s been a few years, the comeback podcast where so many people share their stories of coming back to him and like the prodigal son, right? Like, feeling that divine worth when you [00:37:00] haven’t felt it. It’s so much greater and I think you think of Alma right in the Book of Mormon and how prolific he is and how many of the most important doctrines come from Alma and that’s the same Alma who calls himself the vilest of sinners in Mosiah goes about trying to destroy the church, not just kind of sinning and creating problems, but, um, but I just think there’s something special about coming back to him and finding that divine worth again.

Once you’ve lost it, you know what you’ve lost. And so there is that joy. And finding that worth again, reminding yourself of what the purpose of this whole life is.

Karen Papin: What is one thing that, like, one small and simple thing that those listening can do from, to apply what we’ve been talking about today? I think

Shima Baughman: You know, I think if the small and simple thing I would say to everyone, and I do say to everyone that listens is if you live within a reasonable distance of the temple, actually try [00:38:00] to go spend as much time as you can.

There is for some people. That’s going twice a week. Other people. It’s once a week. Other people. It’s once a month, but the more time you can spend there. The more your life will change more dramatically than almost any other thing that you can do. I really feel that so strongly. And for those who do not have access to the temple and during COVID, this is what I had to rely on.

It was, you know, I would pray and I would read scriptures and president Emily Belfry taught me one thing that if you’re kind of like, I don’t know, like studying the scriptures is so intimidating. Something she taught us all in a kind of smaller scripture study session. She said that if you don’t know where to start, just grab your phone and look in 1 of the books that you might, you know, say Old Testament and just.

Click on a random chapter and then just read with a question in your mind or some, whatever until something clicks to you and then even just screenshot it and remember, and she’ll do that with different, she’ll do that with one, one of each of the standard works for just a few minutes, or even if you don’t only have time for one, maybe for me, I would go to the Book of Mormon just because it’s so much [00:39:00] focus on Jesus Christ, but, but there’s other really great ways to study your scriptures if you don’t have that.

But I would say, try to read at least five verses a day. If you are, don’t have a regular habit, and if you do have a regular habit, then, you know, you’re doing great. But I think those 2 things for me, give me so much if that’s what we’re seeking, which is, you know, thinking about ourselves in a different way and seeing ourselves as God would spending time in his house and spending time.

I mean, him speak to us because he speaks to us through the word of his prophets. Through the scriptures and general conference talks. And so I would say, say, spend time in those two areas if you can.

Karen Papin: Those are awesome. Um, well, Shima, thank you so much for being on here today and for talking with us and sharing your divine word story and

Shima Baughman: insights as well.

I’m so happy. Thank you, Karen, for having me on here. That’s a great thing you’re doing. So uplifting. I’m grateful.

Karen Papin: Thank you. Thank you so much. If you have found this podcast to be a light, please share it with others and [00:40:00] our leave a review, which helps others find the podcast as well. To learn more about your divine worth and potential, you can download some free scripture cards that focus on your worth at karenpapin.com/scripturecards. You are of worth. You have a purpose. The Lord loves you and he believes in you and only you can make the impact on this world that you are meant to make. Join me next time as we talk more about divine worth and potential.