Ep 7 Divine Worth Podcast: Understanding Your Divine Worth with guests Jamie Heslop and Jen Fagergren

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Welcome to the divine worth podcast, where we are letting go of our self doubt anxiety, fear, and limiting beliefs so that we can step into the divine roles that God has for us. I am your host life coach, Karen Papin, and together we are embracing our divine worth.

Welcome to the Divine Worth Podcast.

I’m excited to have you here. Two special guests today on this special episode. And these are two of my creation coach friends. They’re both certified in the creation coach, and we got to know each other through that program and have stayed connected through this whole time. So I’m excited that you guys get to hear what they have to say and hear our conversation about divine worth.

To get started, I’m going to go ahead and turn the time over to Jamie so that she can introduce herself and then Jen will then introduce herself. So, Jamie, go ahead and Go for it.

Jamie Heslop: Okay. I am Jamie heslop, I live in [00:01:00] northern Utah. I’m a mom of four boys, ages three to 11. I certified in creation coach in 2022.

Try to remember which year is, which time passes quickly. I have a former life of being a photographer, and, I’ve always loved personal development, and so, life coaching and creation coach kind of aligned perfectly with that, and I’ve kind of transitioned to spending my time and energy towards that.

That’s a little bit about me. Great. Welcome.

Karen Papin: Thank you. Hey, Jen. Tell us a little bit about you.

Jen Fagergren: My name is Jennifer. Fagergren and I live in Tucson, Arizona. We have four kids. Our oldest son 23 and then two daughters, 19 and 17. And then our youngest is a sophomore in high school, a boy [00:02:00] that’s 15 years old.

And , yeah, I met Karen through Creation Coach as well. I have always loved personal development. And just kind of felt like I’ve been guided to do this. And , somewhat recently I graduated with a master’s degree in executive coaching and life coaching. So I’m an executive and life coach. And, just happy to be here.

Happy to talk about divine worth. The gospel of Jesus Christ is my first love. And then, personal development is my second love. So. Thanks, Karen, for having me here. Well, welcome.

Karen Papin: I’m glad you can make it. And I’m looking forward to this because I have loved discussing divine worth with friends and so it’s great having you guys on here.

to begin, I want to start off with really diving into what is divine worth? What does that mean to you? And what do you think of when you hear the phrase divine worth?

Jamie Heslop: Firstly, I think of standing in Young Women. And repeating the Young Women’s theme and like, knowing that [00:03:00] that was one of the values.

But I think it took a lot of years for me to really, like, connect and register with, what is my divine worth? What does that actually mean? I think the structure of Young Women’s Now probably does a better job of teaching it than when I was there. Or maybe I just didn’t opt in to some things I could have.

 But to me it just really means understanding your connection to your heavenly parents. And how valuable you are to them and what your potential is and what you’re capable of because of that connection.

Karen Papin: It’s very like closely tied to this identity that we have as daughters of God. And when we really embrace, Oh, I am a daughter of God, we come to understand that we are inherently loved and of worth.

What about you, Jen. What thoughts do you have on that?

Jen Fagergren: My thoughts also kind of went at [00:04:00] first to young women and the young women’s theme. And, and then my, also my thoughts also kind of went to my mission in Scotland. That’s where I kind of my next step after young woman and, where I first, I also continued to learn the current of, growth and development and striving to become more.

Like my heavenly father. And, so to me, I guess it kind of brings me back to personal development because I feel like, God has divine laws and principles, right? And he’s given us this opportunity to come to earth and to, develop faith and to experience the good and the bad, all the hard things, and it all has a purpose, and that is for our own experience, and so we can choose faith and choose to, learn how to become like him and then to work on developing his divine characteristics and traits that enable us to, to be more like him and then to live more [00:05:00] like he lives.

So, the two kind of go together with me, for me too, as far as personal development, because so much of the truth of personal development is actually the truth of becoming, becoming like God, becoming like our Savior, Jesus Christ. So, that’s kind of where my thoughts went with that.

Karen Papin: That’s such a good point, because I, that kind of takes us into, like, my next question, which is, why is divine worth important?

Because I feel like when we embrace divine worth, We have that desire to trust in the Lord more and to trust more in his vision of who we are becoming. So, yeah, going on into that next question. Why do you feel that divine worth has been important for you within your life.

Jamie Heslop: You said that, like, it gives us the desire to trust in God more and to kind of follow what he wants for [00:06:00] us.

I think with that desire is also the confidence to do it because. That’s what I feel like divine worth gives me is the confidence that whatever my failures are or whatever mistakes I do or whatever great things that I do and accomplishments that I have, like, none of that changes my worth. It’s all constant in the eyes of our heavenly father and our savior.

And I think that is. The biggest application for me is, it gives me the confidence to seek for personal revelation. It gives me confidence to follow and act on what I receive and increases my faith that, Heavenly Father knows and cares about me and my life and he’s invested in everything that I’m doing.

And,, it deepens that divine relationship for me.

Karen Papin: Do you have like a specific experience that you would like to share about [00:07:00] how you have grown in that confidence because you’re a divine worth?

Jamie Heslop: My mind instantly goes to, a specific time. Well, there’s a couple of specific times where I, I think it’s common as women to have this. Struggle with divine worth and, I remember once I was in high school and we were doing like our back to school father’s blessings that we did traditionally every year. I just remember sitting and listening to my siblings blessings and I was kind of having this internal struggle with my worth and just kind of figuring out who I was and.

I remember listening to my siblings blessings, and I just sat there and I said, What I really want from this blessing is just to feel loved. Like, that’s what I really would love to have right now. And, I didn’t say anything, I just kind of silently offered a prayer that like, I just want my blessing to make me feel loved.

And, I [00:08:00] have four other siblings, so I’m one of five, and I don’t remember, which order we went in that night. I just remember paying close attention to everyone else’s blessings, and noticing that mine was different. The blessing that I received, my dad just talked so much about how much Heavenly Father loved me.

And that was like my first standout experience that I had, that I just knew that I could have a connection and just feel that love. And when I, needed to call on that and kind of remind myself of that, in whatever phase of life I’ve been in, the experiences have been similar. I also had experiences.

Reading my patriarchal blessing and if you look at the printed copy that I’ve had since I got it I think I was 13 or 14 when I got my patriarchal blessing And I just highlighted every time that it talks about how much Heavenly Father loves me How much my only parents love me how much God loves me how precious I am to God like that is in there and it’s [00:09:00] because it’s been something I’ve needed and Yeah, I think it’s the time spent with God talking about it.

That’s what’s really The key Instilled it in me is being on my knees and saying like, I’m not feeling this for myself. I’m not feeling it from you. I just want to feel loved and I want to feel like, I can love myself and I’m just struggling with that. And I would say the spiritual confirmation that became, like, nearly physical, as physical as possible, in a room by myself, like, those experiences have just really rooted it in me, that, like, God knows us, and he’s aware of us, and there’s a lot more I could share of times when he’s been aware of us. What I’m dealing with and exactly what I need, but I think those are two profound and like Near the beginning of my relationship with God that really instilled that in me.

I

Karen Papin: think it’s [00:10:00] interesting just that focus on love because when we really look at those the big things that really keep us from embracing our worth. It’s like things like when we start to fear, when we start to doubt ourselves, when we, are comparing ourselves to others or focus on being perfect.

It’s like, the answer is love. When we really embrace God’s love , it really doesn’t matter if we’re making a mistake. We can overcome those mistakes because we have the Lord’s love in our life. , it gives me confidence to be able to step outside my comfort zone because I know Heavenly Father is going to love me no matter what.

And so I can take those steps forward. Even when there’s chaos around, that, that love sustains us. And so when we are embracing our worth, it’s really embracing God’s love.

Jamie Heslop: Yeah. I would say that those two things. I guess that’s how [00:11:00] I feel it. I feel that I am of worth to God when I feel how much he loves me.

Karen Papin: One of the things that, that’s been mentioned by both of you, is that the first thought that comes to mind is Young Women’s. And yet, so often it’s, it’s not until we’re a little bit older that we really start to understand that. Why do you think that is?

Jen Fagergren: I think the reason why we may not recognize it as much as when we’re younger, like in young woman years is because the more life we live, the more experiences we have, we’re able to kind of grow in confidence, right?

So I think one of the reasons why when we’re younger, it’s harder for us to kind of build that divine worth is because we haven’t lived life enough to have experiences. It’s through life experiences that, we’re able to build on one experience after another, which in [00:12:00] turn creates confidence. It instills the confidence of divine worth , in time to our experiences as we turn to the Savior.

Karen Papin: That’s such a good point too, because there’s a difference between learning something from a book and then actually going out and experiencing it. And so it’s interesting to hear what you’re saying, because it’s kind of like, we are learning it in young women’s and then as we get older, we’re having more and more, experiences where we’re actually taking action and applying it.

It’s not just something that, that we learned or that we heard. It’s something that we’re actually applying into our life because we’re having more and more experiences as we get older.

Jamie Heslop: Do you have anything to add to that?

Yeah. I think part of it is developmental. There’s just like a developmental phase that you go through of kind of figuring things out. I think, like you said, it has to do too with experiences and how much personal experience we’ve had with something that we’ve learned.

I feel like there’s been a lot of [00:13:00] talk lately. About , a transactional gospel. We were taught that if you do this, then you get this, and it’s kind of like the vending machine idea, and how that’s not really how it works. But I do think that that’s an important stepping stone to learn how it works.

Like, that’s where we start, and we have to kind of have a place to jump off from. And so we start to learn, like, Yes, you have divine worth, and you have heavenly parents, and they love you. And so we start to learn the principle, and then it is, as we apply it, and as that’s challenged, That we start to really, let it take root in us and have that testimony.

And we can move beyond the transactional principles to more of, feeling God’s love. I know I have divine worth because I feel God’s love. And it doesn’t so much have to do with what the text, I mean, it does have to do with what the scriptures say. But it’s more than out, it’s outside the book, [00:14:00] if that makes sense.

Like, it’s, it’s personal now.

Karen Papin: It’s like we’re taught, like Nephi says, to liken the scriptures to ourselves, but it’s not until we actually experience it that it becomes personal to us. Yes. What are some of your favorite scriptures on divine worth?

Jen Fagergren: Jeremiah 29, 11, for I know all the thoughts that I think toward you, save the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you an expected end so the reason why I like that, that scripture is because God has plans for every one of us. So, basically it’s because we belong to him. And, , he has plans for every one of us and we are precious in his sight.

So he has plans to prosper us , and not harm us. Plans for a great future for us. And, If you think [00:15:00] about why would he have plans for each of us, it’s because he knows, he knows us, and he knows our potential. We are his child, and we have divine identity, and worth, because we belong to him.

Karen Papin: Love that. I also like how one of the things it mentions is, he has thoughts of peace towards us.

It’s like, so often we can Put ourselves down and that scripture reminds us right there. No, he has thoughts of peace for us. He loves us

So Jamie, but what about you? What’s one of your favorite scriptures on divine worth?

Jamie Heslop: The one that I’ve been thinking about is just probably the one that you hear most often related to divine worth It’s in Doctrine and Covenants 1810. There’s remember the worth of souls is great in the sight of God That’s something that I think we hear often Um I think that word remember is really important. Whether that connects back to, our premortal existence. remembering how much we’re worth to God. Or it’s just reflecting back on experiences [00:16:00] that we’ve had here, that sometimes when we’re not feeling it, like we can remember, what our worth is. And it’s the worth of our soul. It’s not the worth of our accomplishments.

It’s not the worth of our possessions. It’s not the worth of our, it’s not anything other than our soul. Like that’s. So I really love that.

Karen Papin: Is there anything else that you would like to share , as far as your thoughts on divine worth goes?

Jamie Heslop: Something that I came across actually just this morning. It was a talk from women’s conference or something by a girl named Lexi Walbeck. It was on, I just watched it on YouTube through the true millennials. But she’s talking about the doctrine of the body. That was kind of her topic line or the title of her talk.

And she talks a lot about like,, individual worth and divine worth and divine identity in that. And I really loved the point that she made about how [00:17:00] we’re created in the image of God. And as women we’re created after the image, not of heavenly father. But it would be of Heavenly Mother and we really don’t have a lot written or documented or information about Heavenly Mother, but that the best information we can get about Heavenly Mother is by learning to understand our own worth and ourselves.

And I really loved that, that like, as we come to know our potential and our worth, we can connect greater with our Heavenly Mother. I thought that was really insightful. I really liked that.

Karen Papin: That’s beautiful.

Jen Fagergren: Yeah, that is beautiful. And then just going like right along with that, like Jamie said, the more we learn, we are having to know who we are in our divine worth, then, we’re able to know more about our heavenly father.

It reminds me a little bit of this quote that I love from [00:18:00] President Nelson from, May 2022, from his talk titled choices for eternity. He said, no mistake about it. Your potential is divine. With your diligent seeking, God will give you glimpses of who you may become. And I just know that’s true.

That’s been true in my life, through experiences, through, Learning of the temple through spiritual experiences, through studying the Book of Mormon, through all the things he has given me glimpses of who I am and who I may become. And, if I could share too, something, that my mom actually, that was one of her favorite quotes and

she’s written her own story to leave behind for our family. And, , it’s part of it is based from that quote, and it’s because it has come true for her, even though it’s, this quote came about many years after her experience of getting those glimpses of who she is and who she could become.

But she, she says in her, [00:19:00] the book that she wrote , for our family to leave behind that she grew up with , very low self esteem , and was troubled the plague of feeling less than. And she said that she describes her feelings of the low self esteem as being, she felt that she was part of a non descriptive wall where she was lost and unnoticed.

 And the wall was a terrible place to be, but the wall drove her to the waters of Mormon, in the forest of Mormon, the place of Mormon, the waters of Mormon, the forest of Mormon. And how, beautiful are they, to her eyes, because it was there that she came to know the knowledge of her redeemer, that he has been her rescuer, her friend, her helper, and has rescued her from the wall.

She had no idea how, amazingly powerful and wonderful her father in heaven would be in her life to do that for her. So it was through her experiences with the Book of Mormon and being in the Book of Mormon

Jen Fagergren: so I feel like that’s something that we can all [00:20:00] do , that we all can experience in our life is being able to. Know for ourself, like further, Nelson said he’ll that God will give us glimpses of who we’re .

Karen Papin: I actually have a part of that quote, like just set aside right here, but, but it’s actually from Elder Steven, R Bangerter’s talk from April conference, because he quotes. That quote from president Nelson, but I love what else he says. He says, I believe that if the Lord, we’re speaking to you directly, the first thing he would make sure you understand is your true identity. My dear friends, you are literally spirit children of God

and then he starts quoting president Nelson. Make no mistake about it. Your potential is divine with your diligent seeking. God will give you glimpses of who you may become. So it’s funny that we all have that quote in some way or another. And, I love that just that [00:21:00] idea he gives us those glimpses of who we can become.

I know that if the Lord showed me at age. Or whatever it was, who I would be today, I probably would have been way too afraid. And I think that those glimpses are actually, in some ways, a blessing, because he does teach us line upon line , and it’s amazing. It’s wonderful that happens because he’s preparing us, he’s helping us to be ready for the next step.

And then when we’ve done that, then it’s like, okay, now we’re ready for the next step. But he’s also patient with us because he loves us and he understands it’s not easy. And so, embracing his love and, even if the task at hands or, or what we feel that the Lord is asking of us seems too great.

It’s like the Lord loves me, even as I am and he is patient with me. And so what is just the next small step that I can take? [00:22:00] And then we take that step. And then there’s another one and the other one, but let’s focus on just that next one step when it starts to, you know, get overwhelming. So I love this little, little glimpses.

Okay, one more thing, and then we’ll kind of start to wrap up. What do you think is an actionable, like, small and simple thing that our listeners can take to really embrace that love and, and this idea that we are of worth?

Jamie Heslop: Something that just came to my mind was, It’s a scripture that I learned through our creation coach course, about how much God loves us.

 I think we can often resonate with the idea of, well, once I change this, or once this is different about me, then I’ll be lovable and God’s eyes are worthy of his love. And there’s scriptures about how the natural man is an enemy to God, and so how those parts of us we might [00:23:00] think are unacceptable or unlovable by him.

But having that scripture about the natural man paired with the scripture of how God treats his enemies, has been life changing for me, where in the scriptures, he commands us to love our enemies. And if the natural man is an enemy to God, and he loves his enemies, then he loves all the pieces, he loves all the parts of us.

And that doesn’t mean that we’re not trying to repent and improve and change and become more like God, but it does mean that he loves all of us right now as we are. I think that simple connection of two scriptures has been something that I’ve thought about it a lot and it has changed some of my thoughts and my actions. So if I could leave one thing, I would, I would say that.

Karen Papin: Yeah, that’s like a life changing connection to make. Thank you for sharing that. Jen, did you have a small and simple way someone can really embrace this?

Jen Fagergren: Yeah, just, I mean, [00:24:00] even going back to the young women theme that we thought of mentioned before every day I like to remind myself who I really am.

that I am a daughter of God who loves me and I love him. I often say, almost on a daily basis, that I am his and he is mine because I feel that, through my relationship and just like a reminder that he’s that constant relationship in my life.

And one thing I, I got to, to add here because. I don’t know if you all know, but, but my mom did the creation coach. She was invited to be on here too. So she gave me some of her notes because she wasn’t able to hop on. So, she did some preparation and I like what she said. She said that , this is what she does.

She, says that she reminds herself that she’s a child of God, deeply loved by him and completely forgiven by him and that she can become a new 

 And then a quote that I remember her saying, for a child of royal [00:25:00] birth, my father is king of heaven and earth. My spirit was born in courts on high, a child beloved, a queen, priestess am I, , and just a reminder that we are children of God, you know, we’re children of the covenant, daughters of the covenant, disciples in Jesus Christ.

And he’s helping us in the becoming, and to know I’m knowing of our divine worth and divine identity. So I’m always grateful for that., I love so much, Elaine Dalton and a lot of her quotes. I remember I was serving in the young woman, when she was serving as general president.

So I just remember all that she brought that calling and, I want to think just recently I heard her say that when she prays that presence of like a picture being filled with water that, the light of the Savior may fill her vessel with light.

And I started saying that in my prayers. As a reminder, what my divine worth is, and that it’s being filled with that light and knowledge and [00:26:00] understanding of who I am. So that helps.

Karen Papin: Yeah, we miss your mom. It would have been fun to have her on here. But thank you for sharing some of her thoughts.

So my last question is how can people connect with you?

I’m on Instagram at

Jamie Heslop: Jamiehesloplook, that’s probably the easiest place to find me the most consistent place that I am.

Jen Fagergren: Yeah, I’m on Instagram as well JFagergren and at jenfagergrenlifecoaching.com You can she can put it in the notes So yeah, I just wanted to just to let everybody know that I’m launching a free program And I’m wanting I could only take 10 people and it will run for about 10 to 12 weeks So what I’m, what the program, is basically to, help parents increase their ability to support their teen who, has a desire to work on decreasing [00:27:00] their unwanted viewing of pornography.

There’ll be lessons recorded, so it’ll be 100 percent confidential, I guess I first should say that. there will be recorded lessons and videos for, for them to watch weekly, and then, coaching weekly as well. And basically just helping them to learn the skills and tools to being able to shift their emotions and Thinking, which in turn will make the unwanted pornography viewing absolete once they have those skills and tools.

So, this program is for those teens that are great kids, they’re attending seminary, they’re reading their scriptures daily, saying their prayers. They’re preparing for missions and preparing for temple marriage and families and they’re good kids. Just look for that.

Karen Papin: Thanks, awesome. Great. That’s a great resource. And something that’s really needed. So thank you for sharing that. And, Jamie and Jen, thank you so much for being willing to do this and [00:28:00] having this conversation with me. I loved hearing your thoughts and divine worth. And, yeah, thank you for coming. Thanks, Karen. Thanks for having us.

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To learn more about your divine worth and potential, you can download some free scripture cards focused on your worth at karenpapin.com/scripturecards  You are of worth. You have a purpose. The Lord loves you and he believes in you and only you can make the impact on this world that you are meant to make.

Join me next time as we talk more about divine worth and potential.