Karen Papin: [00:00:00]
Welcome to the Divine Worth Podcast, where we are letting go of our self-doubt, anxiety, fear, limiting beliefs, so that we can step into the divine roles that God has for us. I am your host life coach, Karen Papin, and together we are embracing our divine worth and potential.
Karen Papin: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Divine Worth Podcast. Today’s guest is Amy Beck. She lives in Idaho with her husband and the two youngest of their four children. She’s the host of New and Everlasting, a podcast for finding covenant joy in everyday living.
She enjoys travel, reading, writing, and cross stitching when she’s not at her marketing job or producing a podcast. So Amy, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
Amy Beck: Oh, it is my pleasure. I am delighted to be here, Karen.
Karen Papin: Well, I am excited to have you, recently I was able to be on your podcast and that was just such a wonderful experience.
So I’m glad that we get to talk again and have you on here. So, to begin, I would love to hear how you have seen God’s love and belief for you in your life.
Amy Beck: I don’t believe in coincidences and there have been so many experiences that I have been, I don’t wanna say going through that sounds [00:01:00] like it’s hard, but I have been experiencing a lot of things in the past several months that I kind of feel like I’m kind of in like my own Amy 1 0 1 class, if that makes any sense.
Just like line upon line little things here and there. I’ve been trying to actually like pinpoint when it all kind of started to snowball
about feeling God’s love for me. I guess I would say one important element was last year when I was actually praying about a line in my patriarchal blessing. ’cause it was something that I knew that if I just was living my fine, normal life, but if I kept on that trajectory, the things that were stated in my blessing wouldn’t [00:02:00] happen.
Changes had to happen. But I didn’t know what that was. I didn’t know what that looked like, so I started praying about it. Probably the most earnest prayers I had had in a very long time. And ultimately the answer that I started to get was start a podcast. That’s crazy talk. No, that’s like, kind of like my own fantasy thoughts just would just pop into my head, you know?
And it, it kept coming. And then finally I started approaching it with curiosity. And I was like, really? Okay, you’re saying I’m asking this question and this is the answer. And ultimately, you know, I had an experience in the temple that was like Joseph Smith said, I knew it and I knew God knew it. I’m like, okay, I’m starting a podcast.
This is great. And one of the truly miraculous things is I knew God’s hand was in it because a year ago, this would’ve [00:03:00] petrified me. I would’ve not had the courage, the stamina. To do what I’ve started doing. And it’s kind of funny. It’s like part of me is like, you should this. Wait, normally we’re scared of this.
Why, why is this working so well? I’m like, I don’t know. It must be what the Lord wants us to do and we’re doing it. So he’s making it possible. And through the podcast I have had just some incredible experiences. I’ve met you. I’ve had some other guests that I just really feel like I like, okay, maybe the, the podcast was just this way that Heavenly Father is getting me to meet these people.
I need to know. But also it’s not just the podcast also
it’s a long answer, Gary. I can, ‘ cause I didn’t, I don’t think I realized how little confidence and belief in myself I had. Until some of [00:04:00] these layers started getting peeled away. And one experience, I talked about in one of my recent podcast episodes was an experience I had with one Corinthians 13, 12.
And how that actually started was, I get words in my head. I say that my brain is 80%, uh, movie quotes and song lyrics. So I was just having these words in my head and I honestly couldn’t have told you where they came from and the words were seeing through a glass darkly. And so finally I’m like, well, these words are not getting outta my head.
So I looked it up, it was scripture, go figure. I was like, oh, okay. Scriptures. I like scriptures. And so then I, I, you know, read it and through this, I don’t wanna say convoluted ’cause that has a negative connotation, but through this very. I guess you maybe unique to me thought pattern. I started to s [00:05:00] it, it revealed to me God’s love for me.
And then I read the rest of the chapter. I didn’t know that was the famous chapter on charity. You know, love is patient and kind and dah, dah, dah, dah. I was like, oh I got to this whole point on love and charity before I even had glanced at the rest of the chapter. I was exclusively focused on that and it really started to make me think that like I had for so long in my life, like I had been looking through a dark glass and that was being, that was, that has been started to be pulled away and I’m starting to see myself in more aligned with how heavenly father and Jesus Christ see me.
And it’s very, I mean, I can’t, I mean, I grew up in the church, I said the young women’s theme throughout all of my teenage years. But the depth that I’m starting to feel it, like [00:06:00] how it is actually penetrating my heart, it’s mind boggling. And I’m also, yeah, it’s awe-inspiring. And then very recently I started having these thoughts about self-doubt and
rewind a little bit. So President Nelson’s been talking a lot about repentance, daily repentance, the joy of daily repentance. Okay. So I snapped at my husband. I, sorry, I’m gonna do better at that. You know, these little things. And I’m just like, okay, I know I’m not perfect, but like, I couldn’t think of any huge things.
I needed to repent of. And I’m like, there’s gotta be something else. President Nelson wouldn’t tell us to do this every day if there wasn’t something more to it. And so I started praying. Heavenly Father, show me what I need to repent of. Help me see what I need to repent of. And that’s when you [00:07:00] know these other thoughts that I’ve been having about my self-doubt, lack of confidence, started kind of blending in.
And then actually, I think it was just last week when we were, um, in the Come Follow Me, when Edward Partridge was told to repent of his self-doubt. I don’t think it says self-doubt. I can’t remember what the words the scripture says, lack of belief. Scripture says lack of belief. And I was like, stop. My lack of belief in myself is something to repent of.
That has, like for the past week or so, that has been seriously on my mind. And like all the times in the scriptures where it says fear not, and how in conference talks, it’s been said, you know, that’s, I think it was President Holland said, you know, that’s like one of the widely most broken commandments because of how much fear we tend to [00:08:00] have.
And so, and if you were to, if I was gonna pick a an adjective that would describe Amy for the majority of her life, it would be fear. And so I’ve also been thinking, what am I afraid of? Like, I know the feelings, uh, depression and anxiety, check, check, you know, but I’m like, I’ve really been trying to de dig deep down.
It’s like, what am I afraid of? And well, failure, that’s a huge one. Failing at what? I’m not entirely sure. It’s just kind of like, am I gonna breathe wrong today? I don’t know. I, another part of it is. A couple years ago I was diagnosed with A DHD, and that has been its own adventure in re-seeing myself and my whole life through this different lens.
And one of the things that is very common for people with A DHD is it’s called rejection [00:09:00] sensitivity dysphoria. Just this belief that people are rejecting you or the fear of rejection is be it, you know, it’s part of the executive dysfunction. It’s just heightened. And everyone deals with rejection, but I’ve been starting to see in my life where perhaps there were things that I was afraid of because of the potential for rejection that held me back, and not just in my mortal relationships.
I’ve really been pondering, have I been afraid of rejection from God? Subconsciously not aware of it, but I’m like, have I have, has, have I really, on some level believed that could happen [00:10:00] and I’m, I’m still boiling this one down, but I’m like, it’s gotta be because how could I not believe in all the things that I’ve been taught my entire life about my divine nature?
Even in my patriarchal blessing, it talks about my relationship with Heavenly Father. And I’ve often thought, well, I know he’s my heavenly father, you know, he’s kinda like that estr uncle. You know? It’s kinda like, I know he exists, but I don’t feel like we’re rubbing Elmos at Thanksgiving dinner. But that’s starting to change as I have been allowing the spirit to kind of just guide me on these, just these little moments of discovery.
And so I’m like, okay, so what does repenting of this self-doubt, what does that look like? And so, and there’s just other elements of my [00:11:00] life where this applies. And yeah, even over the weekend when I was, uh, visiting my parents, my dad just said he’s noticed a change in me and over the past several weeks.
And I just said, you know, we were having, we were out at a restaurant and I’m just like, well, I’m not going to just bar all that out in the middle of the restaurant. And I just said, I’ve stopped being afraid and. I say that maybe 98% true. I’m not gonna say that there aren’t things that still terrify me or that have been my thought patterns for so long that it’s like I said before, that recognition of like, this used to scare us.
Why doesn’t this scare us anymore? But I also realized that it was part of my identity. That is how I defined myself. I just told you what would be Amy’s key descriptor, fear, afraid of [00:12:00] everything. And I’m like, and that displeases heavenly father. But it isn’t like the chast chastise I’ve also been like, I have been studying repentance scriptures, conference talks, and now chastisement.
’cause I think for me, chastisement, you know, the Lord love with whom he chasteneth. But chasteneth has always had that terrible negative connotation. I think kind of like how repentance has. In the church for so long until President Nelson has started to kind of massage it a little bit and be like, see, it’s actually not that bad.
It’s because heavenly father loves you. It’s because Jesus loves you, that they ask you to repent. And so I’ve actually started thinking about chastisement the same way, and I was like, I’ve been trying to look at scriptures where it says like we were chastened. Like it says they were chasten. It doesn’t say that they were shouted at it doesn’t say that they were, you know, I mean, there are examples like when Almo, the younger was [00:13:00] unconscious for three days, he said his soul was wrecked.
That was pretty bad. But I think in a lot of cases it’s that gentle Amy, the way you’ve been seeing yourself your whole life is not how I see you
and. It’s this very gentle tutelage, perhaps is a way to say it. And yeah, I just feel, I just, I feel so completely seen, like just, you know, when I, you know, opening my scriptures or a thought that’ll come to my head even over the weekend, I really like etymology, like the root of words. Like what’s the history of this word?
What does it come from? What did it mean centuries ago? And what, how does it influence its meaning now? And um, again, in come follow me, it talked about agency and that men shall be agents unto themselves, like [00:14:00] agency and agents. Okay? Those words are so similar, but that doesn’t mean they have the same roots and, well, these two pretty much did have the same roots.
But, so I’ve started using AI in my scripture study. Because there’s no one there to ask questions. I’m alone when I’m doing this. My husband works nights and so I will just be like, Hey, and I’ll talk to it and it’ll talk back to me. And I forget that it’s not a real person sometimes, but it comes up with some very interesting feedback that really makes me think.
And when it talked about agency, ’cause like if you’re in Sunday school and you said if the teacher’s said What’s agency? Uh, everyone would probably raise their hands and be like, the power to choose. God wanted us to choose. But when the AI was talking about agency, it talked about choices with consequences.
Every time it brought up the agency, it made it brought up consequences. And I was just like, why is that [00:15:00] not taught? I mean, we do teach that, you know, if you pick up one end of the stick, you’re also picking up the other. Like we do talk about it, but it’s not like part of the definition of agency. So that’s why I’m trying to, talking about, that’s a little digression from my.
How I feel God loves me, but just and, and just the fact that I have tho that I can have those opportunities. And I’m not gonna say this is a new thing. I just feel like perhaps my receiver, for those old enough who used to listen to radios and you’re trying to dial into the right channel, and there’s just that sweet spot on the knob where you can actually hear the sound waves.
And I feel like I’m getting into a point where there’s less static, there’s less seeing through the glass darkly, and I’m starting to get his message more clear.
Karen Papin: So what do you feel like [00:16:00] changed? Like what changed? Because you said a year ago, it’s like starting a podcast that would’ve been paralyzing for you.
So what, what changed to the point that you’re now in this, place where you’re like intentionally every day seeking, okay, what can I change?
Amy Beck: Okay, so here’s another long story. And isn’t it the power of post-production editing is a beautiful thing. You can whittle out as much as this as you care too.
I told you a few years ago I was diagnosed with A DHD, which isn’t like a life-threatening diagnosis. It, you know, I think every other woman my age that I talk to has been recently diagnosed with A DHD. But it seriously did make me look at my whole life through a different lens. In a couple of elements in particular.
One is masking. And for people who aren’t familiar with the concept of masking, it’s realizing you aren’t, you know, [00:17:00] one of these things is not like the other. You realize you are the other in a social situation, and so you imitate the behavior of others. To fit in. So and I think everyone can relate to this, you know, if you, you’ve ever been with a group of people and someone tells a joke and everyone’s laughing and you’re not quite sure why everyone’s laughing, but you laugh too.
’cause you don’t want to feel dumb because you didn’t get the joke. That’s an example of masking. Another one was when I started learning more about the tendency for especially women and girls with a DHD to deal with some perfectionism. And a lot of that has to deal with, I think, a misunderstanding of where our, where our worth lies.
There’s so much that doesn’t make sense or things that are confusing to us. We don’t get the joke. And so we overachieve, you know, we have to be perfect in this thing. And it really, [00:18:00] I identity crisis. Sounds harsh, it sounds a bit extreme, but I would say I kind of went through a little bit of that and I kind of had to figure out who if I’ve been masking and the perfectionism, the reason why I’ve been, you know, I was just a good student and I was just a high achiever.
No, I was doing all these things because I didn’t know where my, my worth was. This is, you know, it was just like this superficial, artificial, pretend version of it. One of the things with my A DHD that my entire life, as long as I can remember, I’ve struggled with prayer. Like I can be driving down the road.
Heavenly Father, you know, oh, I’m so grateful that that car that wasn’t paying attention didn’t hit me. You know, I, you know, prayer, the prayer in my heart kind of like conversations in my head. I. No problem, but like the get on your knees and have like a really earnest communion with your Heavenly Father.[00:19:00]
I couldn’t do that because I was, there was always so much noise in my head, especially when I was a teenager. I would have like multiple songs in my head at the same time. And I don’t know if anybody listening can relate to that, but it’s overwhelming and let alone, so finally at that time when you know you’re, you’re free of distractions and you’re trying to talk to your heavenly father that there’s so much noise and it’s, I would say there would be times where I tried harder or less hard through throughout my life.
Finally, when I got diagnosed with A DHD and I started treatment, I thought. Finally, I’ll get to pray. Finally, I can have prayer. Like when they talk about in general conference, those kinds of prayers, I’m like, I want those kinds of prayers, but I, they don’t happen for me. And so I thought, okay, I’m gonna start treatment, and then all of a sudden my [00:20:00] mind is gonna be clear and I’m gonna be able to have these opportunities.
The treatment did help in a lot of ways, but it didn’t help with that. And that was just so disheartening because, I mean, we teach little nursery children to pray. They fold their chubby little arms and they say a blessing over their goldfish, snacks, you know? And I just felt like I was deficient. I felt shame because I couldn’t pray.
And there was, there was a other lot of mental health issues going on. I mean, this is just one slice of the pie, but. I was also struggling, you know, with consistent scripture study. So what I did was I said, okay, heavenly Father, guess what? I’m gonna keep doing the things I’m doing and I’m gonna keep not doing the things I’m not doing.
I’m, I hesitate to tell this story ’cause I don’t want [00:21:00] people to misinterpret my intention. I was still going to church, I was still going to the temple. I was still serving in my calling. ’cause those were the things that I didn’t struggle to do. But the things like the prayer and the scripture study, I said, I’m just going to keep not doing them, but I am going to stop feeling guilty about it.
I said, I just, I just, I’m done, I’m done beating myself up about this and, and that this lasted several months, maybe up to two years. I can’t remember precisely when I got rebellious. But. There were some amazing things that happened in this process because I finally stopped paying attention to the guilt and the shame.
I started to hear other things [00:22:00] clearer her.
I started to realize how much he still loved me, even though I was not doing those things that we’re told to do from the time that, you know, we can walk and talk. And that was that. I think perhaps that was the beginning of this discovery of my true worth, my divine relationship with him. Heavenly father and my savior.
And, sorry, my box of tissues is on the floor.
Karen Papin: Okay.
So Amy, like what I’m hearing from you is that when you stopped focusing on the thoughts around that shame and that guilt that actually opened you up to be able to receive Heavenly Fathers life.
Amy Beck: Yeah, it came in clear, and I don’t know what I was expecting, [00:23:00] but I was just, yeah, I, it was like this, it was this epiphany.
I was just like, I’m starting, yeah. I, I can’t, I can’t say it in any specific context. It was just something that I just started to feel and started to recognize. But then after some time there were some temptations that started to become more. I guess aggressive, more aggressive. They became more tempting.
And I kind of started getting these thoughts of, okay, Amy, I kind of gave you this buffer. You needed to learn this about yourself. You needed to learn this about our relationship, but now it’s time for you to put on your big girl pants and get back on, track with these other things that you’ve just been totally sliding.
And it was President Nelson’s quote about the daily study of the Book of Mormon giving us [00:24:00] protection. And so I said, okay, because I was truly scared. ’cause I recognized that if I didn’t make changes, that I was gonna go down a bad path. And that did scare me. I wa that was the right kind of fear. And so I said, okay, heavenly father, we’ve, I’ve had this time out.
You’ve taught me a few things and now I’m gonna get serious. And so I was like, okay, I’m just gonna read my book of Mormon every day. I, whatever’s happening, and I’m gonna, I’m gonna get on my knees and I’m gonna say something. I’m gonna make some kind of attempt at prayer, and we’re just gonna see where it goes.
And I really, I think that’s the impetus that has led into all the other things I’ve been able to discover about me in my, my divine self and my relationship [00:25:00] with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.
Karen Papin: I love that because one of the things that I’ve come to recognize is just so importance of embracing God’s love in our life.
And and how that actually, it’s refined, it refines us because as we open ourselves up for that love, then we find the ability to be like our abilities expand, right? And our capacity and, and all these things. And it sounds like that’s exactly what happened. Like once you were able to let go of that shame and that guilt allow God’s love and then it’s like, oh, I am able to start to do these things that were so difficult for me before.
Amy Beck: Yeah. And I had to get creative. I literally, I wish I’d grabbed them before I came in here. I literally made prayer beads. I feel [00:26:00] so silly saying this because, uh, I have teenage daughters and they have like the little bracelet making sense sets, like the little alphabet blocks. And so I just picked, I think, like six key words that kind of represented something I wanted to make sure I included in my prayer.
And they’re nothing, nothing grand or awe inspiring. It’s just like really the basics. But I would forget, ’cause E one, I have a lot of natural distractions. Two, I hadn’t done the work yet for the prayer to become more natural and in instinctive. And so like one of them, like the very first one on this little string is called is ask Every day.
I asked Heavenly Father, please walk with me today. Then when I went to bed, it was, thank you for walking with me today. [00:27:00] ’cause I was really leaning into those baptismal covenants. Promise that your spirit’s gonna be with me. Okay. I’m calling in that solid right now, every morning. Why? I hadn’t done this for my entire life.
I have no idea. I kind of do. So, and then there was just other things like thank you know, okay, Amy what things are you thankful for? Uh, serve, help me. How can I serve someone else today? And I can’t even remember, but it was just, I like literally had prayer beads. And so like, I just leaned on those for the longest time.
I’m like, okay. So now I pray. Oh yeah. ’cause I thought I’d be doing pretty good. And then somebody would, especially having a missionary son, he’d be like, oh yeah, pray for this. And I’m just like. How come that didn’t cross my mind. So I’d like add it a little bit to my little prayer beads, you know?
And like I said, I hadn’t done the work and so I had to get creative and find ways that [00:28:00] I was able to just take it up a notch and just work harder at it.
Karen Papin: Well, it’s like there’s several scriptures where it’s like we learn line upon line, precept upon preset and so that’s what you were doing. It’s like, okay, if I wanna get to those enus like prayers right here with those, those little prayer beads, and I love that you used the prayer beads.
There’s Erin rap from Seek This Jesus Study. What she focuses on is that we all learn. We learn differently. And so that is exactly what you did, was you, you took, okay, what is it that I personally need to be able to start having more prayers, more meaningful prayers, and you found something that works specifically for you.
And I’m sure it would work for a lot of people too, once they hear this and they’re like, oh, that is a good idea. And that can help me to [00:29:00] be able to remember it. Like, I’m thinking that is a great idea for my kids. You know, it’s just, or the order, order of prayers to have these little beads because often like my 7-year-old will come to me and she’s like, okay, mommy, help me.
And then all I have to do is like, okay, just what are you thankful for? And then she just starts going off, right? But it’s like just getting started. And so I, I love that you found something that works for you and because we do, we, we learn differently.
Amy Beck: And I would be lying if I said, that was the first time I’d had that idea.
That idea had actually been kind of popping up for a while, but I never took it seriously. ’cause it was, I’m like, that’s dumb. You know, I shouldn’t need that. I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t need this tactile experience to remember how to, [00:30:00] and then finally I said, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna just do it because I know that’ll get me a lot further than what I’ve tried or not tried before.
So there you have it.
Karen Papin: That’s why we keep, we do repetition, right? Like we teaching, we, we teach. Basic principles over and over again throughout the gospel. And there’s a reason. It’s like sometimes it takes however many times before it’s like o okay, yeah, I guess like leave with the podcast. How many times did I have that prompting?
Then it’s like, oh, you should start a podcast. And I’m like, yeah, no. Right. What that’s so so sometimes that’s, just the way it is. And I, what I love and you kind of talked about this towards the beginning of sharing your story, is that heavenly father is patient with us. Like he, he is still there and he is waiting [00:31:00] patiently and he gives us that space that we need and reaches out.
And sometimes we’re ready for him when he’s reaching out and sometimes we’re like, ah, I need a little bit longer. Right. But he is patient with us. And that’s what I love about your story, is it’s showing that patience that he has because of his love.
Amy Beck: I literally feel like that time when I was intentionally not praying and not reading my scriptures and saying, I’m not gonna feel bad about it.
My rebellious face, I guess in, in hindsight, I really do feel like I kind of had like spiritual bumper pads on. It’s kind of like he gave me training wheels or, you know, and like when you put a toddler, a little baby in, then the walker and they can just kind of scoot around until they learn how to use their feet correctly.
You know? I kind of felt like I had that for a while and just like, okay, I’m just gonna give you this extra little cocoon of [00:32:00] protection because you need to hear, you need to learn this. He’s like, if this is the way that I need to get through to you, okay, I’ll take it. And then, but it was just like, okay, so you’ve kind of gotten this groundwork established.
Let’s move on and build on that.
Karen Papin: Oh, this has been going great. um, okay, so you mentioned earlier that, okay, so earlier we talked about how you focusing in on those thoughts of shame and guilt kind of kept you from being able to receive God’s love. You also mentioned per perfectionism. What are some of the other things that have really kept you from being able to recognize God’s love for you?
Amy Beck: So I would’ve said I was a humble person. But through these experiences, through this kind of personal tutelage, I have [00:33:00] also probab probably in, you know, as a response also to Heavenly Father. See, help me see where I need to repent. Because I perhaps would say, let’s say something I get frustrated with, with my husband forever.
The prayer would’ve been Change him. Make him change. I don’t like this. You know, I can’t make him change so you can make him change. And then I kind of started mostly just communication differences. Why doesn’t he see things my way? Why doesn’t he reach out and try to understand my communication patterns?
And then I started realizing, I mean, I know. He kind of like Heavenly Father’s love. I always knew heavenly father loved me, but it’s, it finally has started penetrating to deeper levels. I’ve known my husband always loves me, so I started, [00:34:00] this is what one of the things I’ve loved about this like evolution of my prayer patterns, is that like when the thought comes to me of something to pray for, it’s like, you, are you prompting your kids?
I’m getting promptings from the spirit. Okay, now ask this question. I said, okay, heavenly Father, help me see. Help me receive the expressions of love that I know my husband is giving me, but perhaps I haven’t been receiving because I have been in my own head too much, focusing on my own feelings.
Because it was in all those times, I was expressing frustration. I was only worrying about my own hurt and how unfair that was.
Okay, I, can actually make a change [00:35:00] here. And it’s again, there’s
been just like line upon line little by little, without getting into too many specifics, I’ve been having this a thought, just another one of those like just little errant thoughts lately. And then, uh, over the weekend I did a lot of driving over the weekend, the thought came to me, maybe you should pray about that thought.
I was like, ah, actually yeah, I should probably start praying about that. Thought I might learn a thing or two. It’s I don’t know. Like I said, I wouldn’t have ever, I. Classified myself as selfish or lacking in humility because like, how can somebody who has such a tattered sense of self-confidence, how could they be selfish?
You know? Isn’t that the epitome of humility? That it really isn’t? Because in all those times where I am focusing on, like I said, my own emotional hurts, and [00:36:00] and not even recognizing my complete underdeveloped self-confidence, but I really was, I was really just thinking about me the whole time.
It was very much I like child development and child psychology, and how once a child realizes it’s a separate being from its parents, then the whole world is about it. It is the center of the universe and the whole, the world is its stage. You know, everything evolves around a toddler it doesn’t and then.
They grow up into children and they become pretty nice again, and then they become teenagers and again, they become the center stage. They become the center of everybody’s entertainment in their own heads. And so yeah, that’s where I was, I was like stuck in, this is all about me phase for longer than I’d care to admit.
Karen Papin: Well, I think that’s something that we all do. Like it’s something that we could all [00:37:00] work on. Um, my mom has a friend who once told her, and I’m paraphrasing this so I don’t know the exact words, but it’s along the lines of love is our ability to tolerate our own emotions for the sake of another.
So it’s like if we can, process our own emotions and or put them aside when we’re present with someone else so that we could, I’m not saying to like push them away as if we don’t have them. Right. But to, focus instead on the what the other person’s feeling with that empathy and with non-judgment and unconditional love.
And and then work on our own emotions when we’re, you know, alone with ourselves. But when we are able to do that, that is when we’re actually able to be fully present and full of love for that person and help them. Because a lot of times when we are in those moments [00:38:00] our own fears and anxieties and things come up and that actually keeps us from, from connecting with others.
Amy Beck: Well, it also makes me think of sometimes we have a relationship with a person who isn’t the nicest person, but at some level we recognize they act that way because they have insecurities. Mm-hmm. Then I real, I’d never turned it around. I am acting this way because I have insecurities, like where’s the neon sign?
Like it’s flashing, it’s like glaring at me.
Karen Papin: There’s a book called loving What is by Byron Katie. Have you heard that book? So that is a lot of what it talks about is it’s like, like let’s take a moment and write. What’s your circumstance that you’re in? And just like free, write everything that you’re thinking and feeling [00:39:00] about that.
And then you can go in and be like, okay, what’s a thought and what’s a feeling? And you start looking at those thoughts and then you choose one that you’re really struggling with and then there’s these turnarounds that you do. And one of it is like you’re turning it around as if you are the person.
Like if you’re putting a judgment of, oh, my husband’s not listening to me. You can turn it around and be, I’m not listening to him. Or you can turn it around and be, I’m not listening to myself. And so it’s very interesting to see like sometimes, yeah, sometimes it’s really what we’re, we’re feeling that is getting in the way.
All I can say is amen to that.
Okay. Awesome. So thank you for being willing to, to share that and because I think it is something that it not, I think, I know it’s something that we all experience. Like even though I’ve read [00:40:00] that book and I like, understand and grasp it I still find myself being like, oh, wait, let me turn this around.
Oh yeah I’m the one who, who can do some work on this right here. And not in like a shame, like, you don’t start shaming yourself in that moment. Sometimes that can happen. It’s like you recognize, oh, I’m putting, I, I can do the work myself. Rather than trying to get them to change. And sometimes we’re, we start.
Feeling guilty that we even, we’re like, oh, I’m such a hypocrite. We start talking to ourselves that way and it’s like, is that how heavenly father wants you to view yourself? It’s like no it’s just shows we’re both imperfect people and we can learn and we can grow and we can apply the atonement and we can change.
Amy Beck: It also kind of makes me go back to, so it was between my, so my freshman and sophomore years at college, [00:41:00] when I went through my, probably my biggest depressive episode, I didn’t know what was going on with me and people would say, oh, Amy, you’ve changed. And I would get so angry because I couldn’t remember feeling another way.
I’m just like, who are, what are they talking about? I’ve changed, you know, I don’t remember not feeling this way. And fortunately for me, I have an older sister, she’s 10 years older than me, who went through pretty much the same experiences when she was in that point in school. And so she was, she was my lighthouse through those through that time.
But the thing she told me was, she said, some people just wanna be good. They want to be obedient, they don’t want to rebel, they don’t, but every one of us has to [00:42:00] learn to use the atonement. So she was saying and so if, you know, some of us are more prone to depression or anxiety, or it could be, it could be another, like a more visible illness that we can go through.
Every one of us has something. To help us learn to rely on the atonement and ’cause it’s when you’re going through the hardest times, the lowest lows, and you finally realize, I can’t get any lower, I can’t get any sadder, I can’t get any more lonely. And then you’re just like, okay, what is that thing that, you know, I was always taught, you know, I can pray and Jesus is listening, you know, and like the spirit will comfort me.
You know, it’s just kind of, it’s again, it’s just like that, that gradual light enlightenment, you know? And it’s like, oh, [00:43:00] okay. Because if, if I’d never had some of those serious struggles or pick any challenge out of your life, right? And use that to become a way to learn about yourself and your relationship with the savior, then what was the point of us being here?
If it was all, you know, rainbows and cupcakes, you know, as nice as that sounds, you know, it, it really wouldn’t benefit us at all.
Karen Papin: Yeah. It’s in those struggles that we grow, but that’s how we grow. And it’s not easy, but it’s something we need to do.
Amy Beck: And so in that time, I, my sister begged me four months to go to the campus counseling center, and finally I got over my fear of admitting to other people how broken I felt.
[00:44:00] And when I got there. After an evaluation, they placed me in group therapy. And so there was just, it met once a week and there was just this room, I don’t know, dozen or so of us, and each of us, it was kind of like a mental health buffet. She has this, he’s suffering from that, you know, and all of it was different.
And we just talking and listening to each other, and that is where I learned what empathy was and how many times I have leaned into that in my life, and how I show love for other people, or even teach them about empathy. I had a friend. She was, this was years after I’d gotten married. She was going through something really hard and I just literally, I just said, gosh, that sounds really hard, that you know this is happening to you and that you know, these people are, you know, reacting this way.
[00:45:00] That’s really hard. And she wrote me a letter saying, thank you. You are the first person who acknowledged that it was okay that I was feeling that way instead of telling me how I should feel. And that’s, I don’t know why I’d never thought to give myself empathy. I don’t know, but I
Karen Papin: think I need to get better at that.
That’s a beautiful insight, right? There is oh, about giving myself empathy.
Amy Beck: But I think part of us, we’ve taught, we’ve been, you know, it’s been drilled into us. Don’t be selfish. Don’t think about yourself too much, you know, but it’s kind of like, well, to our detriment we don’t think about ourself enough. And all of these things have been like you said, process them in the right ways.
Don’t just shove them down and pretend they don’t exist. You know, there’s a little bit too much of that happening, like a lot of that happening and we’re just kind of starting to unpack it and, okay, this is how we [00:46:00] clean up the clutter and the cobwebs and just become more of the version that we are intended to be.
Karen Papin: Amy, thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your, your story and your thoughts. Like the time just flew by, so
Amy Beck: I know. I looked at the clock and I’m like, oh my goodness. Chatty.
Karen Papin: Great. I love these conversations. So thank you so much for having this conversation with me. I. Always ask this question, and it is, what is your favorite divine word?
Scripture.
Amy Beck: So it’s doctrine, covenants 45, 3 through five. I hope I’m saying that correctly for what I, I think that’s the right reference. And again, this was in a, I never loved, I never liked the doctrine covenants before, but this year, because I’m like actually putting in the work, I’m like, I love the doctrine covenants, but this scripture in particular has been dear to me for several, several [00:47:00] years, because it’s Jesus in the role of our advocate.
And he says, you know, behold, he who did no sin, and he says, save. Oh gosh, I wish I had it pulled up when basically he advocates for all of us. But in that scripture, I, it is one of my favorite places where we, you know, they always say, oh, substitute in your own name, you know, to make the scriptures more personal.
So I literally have written in my margin where it says, save Amy, my sister, who believes I’m gonna misquoted, who believes in me, who believes on my name. And I’m like, he, he’s doing that. He is doing that for me. He’s advocating for me. He paid for my sadness, my sorrows, my sins, even the ones that I’m still discovering.
Karen Papin: Well, I mean, it [00:48:00] is amazing to hear you talk about that self-discovery that you’ve been going on, and it’s like, I love how intentional you are with it. That is just amazing. And that’s such a good example to me that it’s like, haha, can I be more intentional in this self-discovery as well?
Amy Beck: Careful what you ask for because then, then you get on a roller coaster and you’re like, what’s happening?
Karen Papin: All right. Uh, what is one small and simple thing that those listening can do to take action on what we’ve been talking about?
Amy Beck: Don’t give up on yourself. Never think, don’t listen to the guilt and the shame. Don’t give up on yourself. If you’ve been told you have a divine nature, find it. Do the work to develop that relationship and find it.
Karen Papin: That’s great advice. How can those listening connect with you?
Amy Beck: So I am, I. Like you said, the [00:49:00] host of New and Everlasting, and so I can be reached at New and Everlasting [email protected]. I’m also on Facebook and Instagram. That’s my handle. You can find me anywhere, YouTube, TikTok, reach out. I’d love to hear from you.
Karen Papin: Awesome. Well, Amy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.
Amy Beck: Appreciate it, Karen. Thank you.
Karen Papin:
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