Ep 18 Divine Worth Podcast: Doing Less, Becoming More with guest Katie Loveless

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Welcome to the divine worth podcast, where we are letting go of our self doubt anxiety, fear, and limiting beliefs so that we can step into the divine roles that God has for us. I am your host life coach, Karen Papin, and together we are embracing our divine worth.

Karen Papin: Welcome to the divine worth podcast today. We have our guest, her name is Katie Loveless. She was raised in Mapleton, Utah and served a mission in the California San Jose mission.

After her mission, she married her high school sweetheart and not soon after her health declined rapidly in the last nine years, she has been diagnosed with chronic illnesses. Anxiety and depression, but through God’s love miracles and power, she has found healing and peace. She has three kiddos and two dogs.

She has written a gospel study guide for depression and started a business to sell those gospel resources and apparel all with the purpose to help you feel God’s love. [00:01:00] She relies on God’s daily hand to help her physically and mentally. And she’s grateful every day that she did not give into the suicidal thoughts she experienced during her most severe years of chronic pain.

So Katie, thank you so much for being willing to come on here and to share your story with us today. Thank you for having me. This is so fun. So kind of going off of your bio, how have you really been able to see God’s love and belief for you in this journey that you’ve had with chronic illness?

Katie Loveless: My chronic illness started when I was a missionary. And prior to that, I very much was all about like self sufficiency and like justice. And I got so much of my worth from the things that I was doing and accomplishing. I was like an overachiever. I was a perfectionist and I knew that that wasn’t [00:02:00] necessarily a healthy way of living, but the fruits of perfectionism unless you have chronic illness, are that you get a lot done and you accomplish a lot and people notice and you’re praised for it. And so I grew up kind of knowing this isn’t a super healthy mindset, but at the same time, like, look at all the good I’m doing. So it can’t be that bad, you know, and, Everything hit on my mission and I was just I was so sick and I still had this mindset like I just I have to push through I have to get through my mission and really truly by the grace of God and his very evident sustaining help I was able to finish my mission, but I came home just so sick mentally and physically and That really started several years of healing from a whole lifetime of this mindset.

But if I push hard [00:03:00] enough, I’ll get to do what I want to do. And, it stripped my pride is what it did. The chronic pain and mental illness just stripped me of all of those feelings that if I worked hard enough, if I did, you know, X, Y, or Z, me, me, me. Right. You can hear all of the I’s and the me’s.

 It stripped me of that because. All of a sudden, things got so bad, I mentioned in my bio, I think that I was suicidal for a year and a half with just, my pain was so out of control and then I was on some medication that just like totally messed with me mentally, and I was suicidal for a year and a half, the pain was, Out of control.

And so I ended up being pretty well homebound for a year and a half. And this was when I was like 21, 22. And so I was really young, like I grew up very athletic, my friend groups, everyone that I kind of associated with, it was through playing soccer. And so when this [00:04:00] happens, like my friends moved on with their lives, they were still doing their thing.

And I just, I felt so alone and I was home bound, right? So I didn’t have school. I didn’t have work, like all of the things that I had used in the past to fill me and make me feel like I had worth and value were just gone. And it brought me to my knees. It brought me to just this low point that I had never experienced.

And It was like months of wrestling, I feel like, the spiritual wrestle of trying to figure out, you know, I’m here, I don’t want to be here, so. What am I doing here? But then also, am I even a value? Like I’ve got these thoughts telling me all day long that people would be better off without me, but I’m draining them, I’m needing so much health help right now.

And so it was a lot of wrestling, I feel like. And it was a productive, it was [00:05:00] a really good wrestle with God where it was just him and and we were home all day, by myself, my husband was off working and going to school and like working so hard to try and Take care of me.

And so it was just God and I and through all of that, there were a couple of experiences I had where I just felt the spirit confirmed so strongly that I was a value and that I had worth, and that like here in this place of doing nothing, not serving anyone, not being productive, that I had just as much value right now.

As I did when I was like killing myself off that, that productivity, God didn’t care about when it came to my value, like God, God wasn’t measuring my value based on that. And that was life changing for me. And it allowed me, I think, to change a lot of really unhealthy thoughts I [00:06:00] developed about how I needed to be and what I should be doing.

I could then drop those things and turn to God. And since then, I do a lot less, but I’ve become a lot more because I’ve allowed God to write my story. And that’s what life is about, right? It’s about becoming someone. It’s not about doing tasks. And so I’m really grateful for that deep dark pit I was in because it, it really illuminated the light of Christ and brought me out and things have been a lot clearer ever since.

Karen Papin: I just want to repeat something that you said, you said that you’re doing less, but you’ve become a lot more. That is such a powerful thing to embrace. So since you’ve embraced that, what like what’s changed in your life since embracing that, that mindset?

Katie Loveless: Everything, [00:07:00] everything has changed. That sounds like kind of dramatic, but it’s true. Prior to all of this happening, I just stacked my life with like as many things as possible, and really, I think the desire behind that was people pleasing trying to please God, God pleasing, people pleasing, and then just If I could be so busy, I didn’t need to worry about if I was enough because obviously I was.

I was too busy to even think about that. And so when that was taken away it’s changed everything. I don’t do very much now. I’m not as involved. I think. And my teens, when I imagined what my life would be as a 30 year old, I would have been a lot busier and I’m busy with my kids, but we are not scheduled out.

And I think I would be [00:08:00] an overscheduler if this had not happened. And by not overscheduling my time by slowing down, my relationship with God is so much more apparent in my life because I’m like at a place where I can hear him and I can see him and I’m not running around distracted. And that has just made such a big difference in my life.

Yeah, mentally it’s made a big difference, but then literally what I’m doing and maybe from the outside looking in, you’d say, wow, she’s like really slowed down. She’s not doing very much, but I feel like who I have become has just drastically changed and I feel so much more at peace with who I am.

And. I feel closer to God than before.

Karen Papin: It’s reminding me of the book essentialism by Greg McKeown. Because it’s about like, you do have all these things. So, [00:09:00] so often it’s hard for us to say no to things. And you’re also talking about that the I don’t know if this is the right phrase, but the dopamine hit that you get when you like, check off those boxes and reach those achievements and things like that.

I totally understand that because it can become addictive when you’re like, okay, so what’s my next goal? And it can, you can burn out without actually appreciating and enjoying the process and even celebrating that goal that you reached. And so, What I love about what you’re saying and it also ties back into the scriptures is this There’s several scriptures that mention stillness and when Christ is asleep on the boat and there’s a storm coming and the, the apostles are like, uh, they wake them up because they’re like, aren’t you afraid that we’re going to die here?

You know, and that would have been [00:10:00] me. Yeah. And, and Christ gets up and he says, peace, be still. And when we compare that to our lives, it’s like our attention can be focused on so many different things. Like what is the next goal? What is the next achievement? What is the next step to reach that achievement? Or the next thing on my to do list. And when we take that advice, peace, be still, then we’re focused on what actually matters which is what’s essential going back into the you know, I mentioned that book. It’s about focusing on what’s essential, like what really matters.

And it sounds like this experience that you’ve had with chronic illness has really taught you what actually matters to you.

Katie Loveless: Yeah. And I love what you said about like losing the joy in the process. You know, it’s so funny because I was like a high achieving teen and I look back and it was like every award, every time I did a [00:11:00] good job or got a good score on a test, it didn’t even sink in because the thought that I always had was.

Okay, good. Like, that’s over. I can clear that off my to do list, but like, I’ve next thing like that. I’m so close. I’m going to fail the next thing if I don’t start it right now. And if I don’t dig in right now, like I never enjoyed those things. There was never like, Oh my gosh, I’m so proud of myself.

It was always just like task check that off. What am I doing next? What am I falling behind right now? And it was not a joyful way to live. It was not like a way that brought peace or joy or comfort or the spirit. It was like, so anxiety driven and so driven by more, more, more, and like never feeling satisfied.

And so, that’s interesting to look back and realize, yeah, I did those things, but they didn’t ever like sink in. And also to what you’re [00:12:00] saying, I think that. Now, I have added stuff back in obviously over the last couple of years, but the requirement is it has to fulfill me like I have to feel fulfilled.

And if it doesn’t fulfill me, that’s someone else’s thing and someone else is going to love it and they’ll do it and they’ll feel fulfilled and that’s their mission, but it’s not mine. And that’s been a really good way for me to kind of. No, if I should jump in with both feet or if I should save it and let someone else enjoy the fruits of that thing, because we all have our things.

Karen Papin: Have you read the book, the life changing magic of tidying up or Marie Kondo?

Katie Loveless: I haven’t read it. I’ve watched the show.

Karen Papin: Okay. My biggest takeaway from that is you keep those things that bring you joy and get rid of the rest. It’s like, why are we holding on to the other things?

just hold on to those things [00:13:00] that, as you were saying, that fulfill you. If it doesn’t fulfill you, you can let it go. So what I have found, , in, well, I’ve been studying psychology and personal development since, I don’t know, for years, since I was like, when I was a teenager, but what I have found is when it comes to joy, the things that really bring the most joy are gratitude And presence, like just being there and experiencing what is around you in the moment.

How have you seen those in your own life?

Katie Loveless: I think that, I think joy, in Galatians, I don’t remember exactly the verse, but it talks about the fruit of the spirit. And I think so often like true joy. When we feel just like , that happiness, that’s [00:14:00] expansive.

That’s God communicating with us and I love your point of, I think, as I felt God’s presence, as I have been more present with myself and with loved ones, I felt more joy and then gratitude, just, you know, when something hard happens and it’s like kind of the big obvious things. I don’t know, the very simple joys of life that we’re so grateful for, they just become really apparent during that time, when all the other extra things are kind of taken away.

And you’re just like, you’re so grateful for a new day. You’re grateful to be alive. You’re grateful for, you know, supportive people. And it’s so much easier, I think, to see the hand of God. When we’re just focused on the basics and it’s not a fun way to live, right? When you’re like really struggling and [00:15:00] just in survival mode, that’s not fun.

But I think that those times happen because they really highlight God’s hand and they really remind us. , like how much we are dependent on him, and that’s a good thing. That’s something that like, if we embrace, it does bring us joy and. Again, that that falls right in with the presence, right?

We’re in the presence of God. We’re aware of that and we’re grateful for those things. and that brings so much joy, at least it has in my own life.

Karen Papin: So in those times when you were at your darkest, what were the things that really helped you to pull you out of that? 

Katie Loveless: So I did not feel the spirit like that day today, just where you wake up and you feel like, Oh, like I just feel pretty good about today. and you can kind of like [00:16:00] create happy moments. Like, I didn’t have that for a couple of years just because my mental illness was kind of Well, it was so severe.

And so, I didn’t feel that. And that was really hard. There were a couple moments I can pick out in a couple of years that I can say that was definitely God’s hand. That was the spirit. And I recognized those things when they were happening. And so I was really grateful for those like sustaining experiences.

But I think day in and day out, I was very reliant on past experiences, like I kind of felt like this is a really weird time in my life and I’m not feeling like myself, but I’ve had experiences that I know came from God before all of this happened and that’s what I’m holding on to and I am just going to cling so hard to those experiences and trust that [00:17:00] because those things happened and.

I recognized God then that God has to be with me now. And I was very reliant, on my patriarchal blessing. That was the thing I think that actually kept me from attempting to end my life is my patriarchal blessing talks about being a mom to children. And so every time those feelings and thoughts would get really strong.

It was like, I was having these prayers with God all day, like, Okay, can I just be done, can I move forward with these thoughts and , you’re going to be a mom, you haven’t accomplished that yet, and your time, you’re not done, you know, you’re not done. And so that’s what kept me going were those promises, my patriarchal blessing, and then just the knowledge that I had developed growing up, the experiences that I’d had of the Savior.

And knowing that he was there, even though I [00:18:00] didn’t understand how this was all happening, why it was happening. I didn’t really have a relationship with God prior to that, where I felt like he really loved me personally, but I knew he was there and I’d been taught he was good. And so I think that is what kept me going.

Karen Papin: I like that, just like the power of remembering those spiritual experiences that you’ve had in the past. Yeah. There’s a quote from Joseph Smith in the book. Joseph Smith history that says, I knew it and I knew that God knew it and I could not deny it. And when we just hold on to that knowledge that we’ve already gained and those experiences that we’ve already had it’s such a lifeline and there’s so much hope that comes as we hold on to those.

Thank you for sharing about that. I am wondering do you have any advice for those whose [00:19:00] loved ones are struggling with the anxiety and depression and suicidal thoughts.

Katie Loveless: Yeah, I do. And my advice honestly is

don’t give up on them. my mom was just, this was hard for my mom, especially both my parents, but my mom, especially to watch me go through this. We didn’t have like a genetic mental illness factor where we were familiar with mental illness and we didn’t have these personal experience so bad.

And, again, mom had always seen me as like. This high achieving person. So if you can imagine it was like, I was, you know, this high being like a teenager, just full of life and going and all of a sudden I come home from my mission and within six months. [00:20:00] And I was like, totally not doing it. I really lost my person.

Who, who is this person? It really felt like I was a completely different person. And I think she worried a lot about the future. I think there was probably some time of mourning. Like I’ve lost my daughter because, she had for a while. And, God took over though. And God brought me back. And, I would just say that if you are watching someone struggling and suffering, this is not the end.

Let God take over. Let God write your loved one’s story. Because he’s taking over when we are in a place. of darkness that we can’t get out of ourselves, that we can’t reach someone through our mortal efforts. That is when God can work the best because there’s no one else that can reach this person.

It’s only God. And so God can take over and he can [00:21:00] do this beautiful, wonderful, amazing work. And it’s so obvious in those situations when he can do that. And so I would just say, pray for this person, but if you can somehow, kind of pull yourself back and let God take over and trust that He loves and knows your loved one better than you, you’ll find peace and it’s going to be okay.

 I just, the thought that came to me several times during that dark place was tomorrow has the potential to get better. And it’s like that, when you’re watching someone struggle, like tomorrow has the potential that they could feel a little bit better. And that’s why we keep going, right? We’re waiting for the tomorrow and the tomorrow does come.

The better comes. But, we have to put it in God’s hands and trust that He loves us more than we love Him. We can understand and he loves our [00:22:00] loved ones more than we love our loved ones. Like he sees that big picture that we don’t see.

Karen Papin: That definitely can be a source of comfort and strength. So thank you for sharing that.

How has your understanding of your divine identity change throughout your experiences with your chronic illness and mental health?

Katie Loveless: my divine identity I think was really kind of abstract growing up. And not, not in a bad way, just like in an untested way, like that, that knowledge of my divine identity had not ever really been tested and challenged until, until things got really hard, my early twenties, and, my knowledge of my divine identity now is that.

It can’t, it can’t be changed. And I mentioned that earlier, but like truly when that [00:23:00] truth sunk into my soul, like that changed, I think the course, of the rest of my life, recognizing that there is nothing I could do. There was nothing I could not do that would take away that love God had for me. And that my identity in his eyes.

Doesn’t change based on, on like my mortality or the choices in my mortality, like my identity as his child remains the same. And that was such a comforting thought. That was so comforting to know. It really took the pressure off me, I think, to know that, obviously, I’m still trying to follow him and do my best, but.

There will be times where I fall short and whether that as a choice I made, or just the frailties, [00:24:00] the weaknesses of God, He’s with us that that made such a big difference. It took a lot of pressure off of me and rather than focusing on, you know, going through my checklist and accomplishing my tasks, I could start looking at God and focusing on him mixing missing a box because I was focused on him.

I like that. That just brings such a good visual. Are we looking at our checklist or are we, we’re looking up to God? That’s awesome. Okay.

What are the things that kind of , other than like the chronic illness, what are some of the things that have really kept you from recognizing your worth?,

Katie Loveless: I think the things that kept me from recognizing my worth, a lot of it was expectations. I think that I perceived others to have of [00:25:00] me and also the expectations I placed on myself. there was a C. S. Lewis quote I ran across several years ago and it is, I want God, not my version of God. And I loved that.

And that quote, changed my understanding. I think that my understanding of God was, growing up just kind of a justice driven God, like there was the scale almost and justice was on one side and mercy was on the other side.

And it was like, Oh, , we’re applying too much justice. I think we need to throw in a little mercy to kind of like offset it. That was kind of my understanding. And it’s not like that. I think justice and mercy are so Intertwined together and both are motivated by the love God has for us that I think oftentimes it’s hard to pick apart.

Like, oh, that was justice. And that was [00:26:00] mercy. but my version of God was a pretty harsh God, a God that, you know, the expectations I put on myself, I felt like. God probably has even higher expectations of me, like if these are my expectations, God expects more, right? God was always like more and bigger and so I love that quote because God was not those things like God is so motivated by his love for us.

And so I loved that quote because when I get trapped in those thoughts and get stuck in my head of feeling like, this is the expectation and I’m not meeting it, that quote will go through my head and I remember, okay, wait, that’s probably my expectation if things are just, if I feel like I’m hitting my head against a wall, that’s probably God saying, this isn’t really necessary, like just back, back off.

That’s not what I’m expecting of you. [00:27:00] let’s regroup, and we’ll figure it out, but that’s your expectation. So, let’s do something else. It’s going to be okay.

Karen Papin: I love that. I needed to hear that today. Thank you. Yeah, you’re welcome. So you have a gospel study guide for depression.

Yes. I want you to share a bit about that, and then also kind of how you balance now with your health and with having your husband, your kids, your family, how you’re balancing and managing things.

Katie Loveless: So I did not ever have the ambition to start a business.

 Like that was never on my radar. That’s not one of my talents in life. It’s not something that comes natural to me, but, by accident, I came across a study guide. Specifically for there [00:28:00] was one for like anxiety and depression and like very specific challenges in life and it was a non denominational Christian website and I saw that and got so excited and I ordered them and they came and they were so good but I just the first time going through I just remember feeling like this could be so much more because we’re missing the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, modern revelation and like When it comes to mental illness, there’s so much that has been said recently.

And, it just kind of planted this idea in my head. And so I started writing this study guide and I really didn’t know even what I was going to do with it. It was more just like, I feel like this would be really cool. And I just, I want to do this. And so I started writing my study guide and a couple of months in, I ended up getting pregnant with our third baby and had to just not work on it that whole time, I get really sick during pregnancies [00:29:00] and, she was born and about a month later, I kind of dove in again and finished it, a couple months after she was born and at that point, I realized I probably, if I’m going to, Do all this work. And if I want to get it printed, I’m going to have to sell it.

And so, I got my website up and, started soul of great worth, which is my Instagram page and have added a couple of other things as well. Like I’ve got apparel, Christian apparel, and then, like some affirmation cards with scriptures and just like relevant quotes. For when you’re going through a hard time, and then like some bracelets.

So there’s some other fun stuff, but the depression study guide, it was. so fun to write and I felt the spirit so strongly while writing it. I actually took my journals, like starting from my mission, I got everything that I had like written down since the beginning of my [00:30:00] mission, up until that point.

So there were like eight, eight years of journals and my scriptures that I had written notes in and I pulled all of it out and made this like super long master list of the doctrines that had helped me during that time that were specifically for me with my depression. And, I realized I’d been studying mental health this whole time.

Because I was struggling with it. And so I compiled it all together and made an outline with those doctrines that really helped me through depression. And then. Added questions and some journaling aspects. And so it’s very much like an involved workbook study guide where you’re studying relevant doctrines.

But there’s also this component where you’re actually like, involved and thinking about your own life and how it applies to you. And then at the back of the study [00:31:00] guide, I came across a couple of, therapy resources that I’ve used 10 ish years now, and so I included those in the back is just mental health resources that talk about like unhealthy thinking patterns and how to get rid of those and how to, like meditate with the scriptures and different things like that.

And so that’s the study guide. And, maybe it was just I wrote it for me to kind of process everything that had happened, but, it was a really special experience and just like a cool kind of moment for me to look back and see, what had happened and how far I had come and how much God had been there during those, those difficult times in my life.

Karen Papin: I love how you were blessed personally from feeling impressed to even just start writing the study guide. And yet it’s also something that can benefit so many other people too. [00:32:00] I think it’s such an amazing idea and something that will really be able to help others.

So thank you for being willing to take action and do it so that. You can bring it to others too.

Katie Loveless: Thank you. Now that I gave you that answer, I remember too that you asked, how do I balance it all? And my answer would be, I don’t, it’s like, it’s the day to day, checking in with God, checking in with my husband, like assessing, how did today go and how can I be better tomorrow?

I’ve done kind of the work to get rid of the excessive guilt and shame. And so I can look at those things and see them as points of growth. Rather than feeling really guilty and there are times that I feel guilty, but I’m think I’m to the point that I can recognize when that’s happening and kind of pull myself back and start over the next day, you know, so, I think it’s just [00:33:00] this constant assessment,

kind of checking in with God, checking in with your spouse, if you’re married and just kind of like. Are we doing okay today? Did we accomplish what we needed to? Like what, what can I adjust and doing it in a way that you’re not beating yourself up for those things. Right.

Karen Papin: Totally agree.

What is your favorite divine worth scripture?

Katie Loveless: I love, I think it’s Moses 1 39. I gave you the exact reference when we talked, but it’s that we’re God’s work in our glory, or we are God’s work and his glory. And that to me, that’s so beautiful. Like whatever else happens, God’s work is us, his desire.

And the things that make him the happiest is being a part of our lives and watching us progress. And [00:34:00] I get that now as a mom. I didn’t get that before, but as a mom, like I totally get it. And obviously I love. so surface level of what God loves, right? Like I, I have a mortal love and God, God is a God.

And so he, his love is so much deeper than my love, but it’s a joy to watch my kids progress. And, it’s really beautiful to think that, we’re God’s work. And I love that.

Karen Papin: Right. And that reminds me of elder Kieran’s. Quote from April conference that God is in relentless pursuit of you.

What is one small and simple action that listeners can take today from what we’ve been talking about?

Katie Loveless: We talked about joy at the beginning of this interview. And I think that, we can seek joy. In our lives, I think it’s hard to [00:35:00] feel God when we are just like in a place of just feeling down and discouraged and yucky and hopeless. And if we can find God through the things that make us happy, you know, those, those are just little points of light throughout our day, but they mean so much.

And so even just like going outside and feeling the sunshine, that’s like an instant boost of feeling a little happiness. And so, even when I was so depressed, I recognized that was something that I was very aware of, like, I do not feel joy, so I’m going to have to be really, really creative in finding joy because I don’t feel it naturally.

And so I would go outside and I would lay on a blanket in the summer almost every day. And Listen to Canon in D by Pachelbel. I love Canon in D and I would listen to, Debussy and I would just lay there and feel the sunshine and. That was something [00:36:00] I was kind of making happen and producing.

And I think that was really important for me. And so if you’re not feeling the spirit, if you’re not feeling God, if you’re struggling, like, Take a few minutes and go do something that you know is going to make you feel happy. And, that really made a difference in my life.

Karen Papin: How can people connect with you?

Katie Loveless: On social media, just on Instagram, Soul of Great Worth.

Karen Papin: Great. Well, Katie, thank you so much for coming on here and sharing about your story and ways that, that we can overcome and turn to God.

Katie Loveless: Thank you for having me.

Karen: If you have found this podcast to be a light, please share it with others and leave a review, which helps others to be able to find the podcast as well. To learn more about your divine worth and potential, you can check out my divine worth scripture study journal with over 52 scriptures relating to your divine worth and potential.

You can find that on Amazon by searching divine worth journal by Karen Papin. Or through the link here: Amazon

You are of worth. You have a purpose. The Lord loves you and he believes in you and only you can make the impact on this world that you are meant to make. Join me next time as we talk more about divine worth and potential.