Ep 24 Divine Worth Podcast: Humility and Self Worth with Bonnie Wiscombe

[00:00:00] Welcome to the divine worth podcast where we are letting go of our self doubt, anxiety, fear, and limiting beliefs so that we can step into the divine roles that God has for us. I am your host life coach, Karen Papin, and together we are embracing our divine worth and potential.

Karen Papin: All right. Welcome to the divine worth podcast today. A special guest is Bonnie Wiscomb she is a serial entrepreneur and certified life coach with experience in podcasting, video e commerce, manufacturing. Digital design and content creation. She lives in Arizona with her husband, nine of her 10 children and an abundance of chickens.

 So Bonnie. Thank you so much for coming on here and being willing to share with us your thoughts on divine worth and potential.

Bonnie Wiscombe: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Karen. I’m excited.

Karen Papin: Well, I’m excited to kind of get to know you and to hear the thoughts that you have on this topic that I love so much. [00:01:00] So to begin with, as an entrepreneur and a life coach and a mom, what are the key moments in your life that have really helped you to be able to see your own divine worth?

Bonnie Wiscombe: Yeah, that’s a great question. I have a couple of them. I, I think the first one. It happened when I was a young adult. I was struggling with overachieving perfectionism, as we do sometimes, like wanting to do everything just right, right? And, I was given a book that really revolutionized this concept for me of the idea that humility is not the same as being self critical.

And in my brain, it was like, you’re either self aggrandizing or you’re self critical. There is nothing in between. So I thought self aggrandizing is pride, self criticism is humility. I don’t know that I ever spoke that aloud or like even consciously formed that thought, but that’s how it went in my brain.

You tear yourself down to be humble. And this book just kind of blew it out of the water for me. And I was like, oh, that’s not humility. That is, honestly, the author went on to say something like it was [00:02:00] like a different form of pride, right? It was still, Focus on the self and that, honestly, I can, I can really thank that book for totally changing my mindset around humility as a young adult, and it helped me in so many ways because no longer was I trying to earn my worth or prove to God that I was humble in this way of tearing myself down.

So that was a huge one. All of a sudden I realized God doesn’t want me to be less than. He wants me to rise to my potential and that doesn’t make me prideful, right? Using my talents and my strengths actually is honoring God in this way. So that was a big one for me. Another big one I think is becoming a mother.

Like when you partner with God you. In something as life changing and creative as creating actual human life. That to me was like, oh, yes, you are a tool in God’s hands, but you’re so much more than that. Like, you are his partner. And that was a huge aha for me that, yes, I am eternal in nature and I have very important and this divine worth that you’re talking about, right?

[00:03:00] Like I am this God in creation, it was, it was such a beautiful concept. And I got to have so many children and so I felt like I experienced that every pregnancy and birth. It was beautiful. And then as a life coach as well, I remember, I still remember the first couple of life coaching clients I had. I was just kind of trying it out.

I wasn’t sure if I was going to really like it, but I loved the, the industry and I loved what coaching had done for my life. And those first few calls were just really revolutionary for me. It was like God was telling me he was like sharing a little bit of his love for these women through me. And that to me then told me how much he loves me as well.

Right. Cause I was able to feel it for these other women. So that was also, and, and one thing that really led me to coaching, it was like, Oh yeah, God needs me to use my talents to help those other people that can’t yet feel his love, feel his love. And that might be through like poisonous mindsets or things where stories we’re holding on to that aren’t really serving us right.

But they can get that through some of the mindset shifts I can give them.

Karen Papin: I love that. And what I love about that too is it’s like [00:04:00] love is not, it’s not something that is limited. It’s, it’s something that grow, it’s an abundance and it continues to grow and grow as you have those experiences. And, and so, yeah, we’re able to feel that love as, as we feel God’s love for them.

We feel it for ourselves too.

Bonnie Wiscombe: Yeah. And I think as mortals, we think that if someone is experiencing love or good or abundance that it somehow takes away from us, that’s like a really common, human, experience, right? Is that somehow it puts us in scarcity or whatever. But when we experience God’s love, we understand just how truly, expansive it is.

And that me feeling love for these other women really only made me realize how much he loved me as well. And. Increase my own capacity to love other people and myself. Right. So I love that you that you brought that up. I think it’s a really eye opening thing to experience and not really something you can explain until you’ve experienced it yourself.

Karen Papin: Yeah. And I think also that that brings in comparison, right? [00:05:00] Because comparison is, is the opposite of that. It’s that scarcity mindset about love. Whereas love is actually about, oh, we are all of worth and let’s help each other feel it. Right. I love that. Great. I love what you’re saying already.

Like we’re not even that far into this, so this is awesome. , so you’ve mentioned learning the difference between humility and self criticism. And can you share like that distinction, like what that actually looks like to you?

Bonnie Wiscombe: So when I went through this transformation, I was a missionary, a full time missionary. And I remember thinking that, I had this really high bar standard that I had to get to, right? And it was going to look like perfect obedience, right?

They really drill in obedience as a missionary, right? It was going to look like perfect effort. It was going to look like getting out every day and checking all the boxes and talking to the people and [00:06:00] making the appointments and doing the discussions and everything I was supposed to do. And when I consistently fell below what in my head was that bar, It was like, dang it, Bonnie, get it together, right?

It was this constant pushing myself against what was really totally an arbitrary bar that I had set in my own mind, but in my mind it was like, this is what God needs me to do. And, um, When I understood this concept that maybe the focus on me was misdirected, what it made me realize was that, Oh, actually, you know, I’m so nervous about pride.

I’m actually kind of suffering from it myself. So what I, what I envisioned once I understood this concept was a coin, right? And on one side, it’s the coin of pride. And on one side is the self lifting up, right? Like I’m so great. I’m so fantastic. What we’re all was so worried about as pride. And then the other side was.

Self criticism. And it was like, oh, woe is me. Still, this block to God’s inspiration, to God’s, will for me, like, it was still a block between me and the divine. [00:07:00] Because it was still a focus on me. So , I think constantly about when I’m talking about this concept, about the, The quote from President Hinckley when he was a missionary and he said he was complaining to his dad He sends home a letter saying I’m miserable.

I can’t I can’t do this anymore And his dad just responded forget yourself and get to work and I remember the first time hearing that thinking Well, that was a little harsh, but he knew that that’s what his son’s problem was It was this self focus and none of us wants to be guilty of being self focused, but we somehow think that we’re doing good by constantly tearing ourselves down.

And I think women in particular are so guilty of this. It is such a pernicious temptation to just constantly focus on where you’ve gone wrong, and it doesn’t do anybody good, and instead we’re just stuck in criticism instead of actually doing good. doing God’s work, right? How

Karen Papin: do we pull

Bonnie Wiscombe: ourselves

Karen Papin: out of

Bonnie Wiscombe: that?

I think the first step is just asking God where he, where we would change, like where he would have [00:08:00] us change, right? Because I hesitate sometimes to even call it pride because people get really nervous and are worried about, again, criticizing themselves more, right? So I’m like, I’ve got to try to tread a little bit easily, a little bit carefully here.

But if we can just check in with God and be like, okay, I see this as a habit in myself. And I know it’s not right because , I’m so focused up here that I can’t really. Sir, I can’t really do what I’m supposed to be doing. How would you have me fix it? What do I do next? How do I, how do I pull myself out?

And he’ll tell you, right? I think for me it was this book, and I can share it with your, your listeners in the show notes if you want. But, it was just acknowledging the concept and I was able to quickly pull out, but sometimes it’s ,like many years process of saying, oh, nope, this isn’t God’s work.

This isn’t God’s work. And what I see. Is I see so many really good women, , trying to be the best they can and Satan is never going to tempt them with really big grandiose sins, right, but instead he’s going to tempt them with this self [00:09:00] criticism, self degradation, this constant focus on everything I’m doing wrong.

That’s how he’s going to stop us. So acknowledging that, that, Oh no, this doesn’t come from God at all. That sometimes is enough for us to just step back and go, okay, well, what now? How do I serve? How do I stay out of, how do I pull myself out of me and go help somebody else?

Karen Papin: One of the things that I’ve seen. And like learning about perfectionism is this idea of humility Because we are meant to become perfected through christ And in order to do that we need to have humility And it’s not this self critical thing like what you’re you’re Talking about it’s not about being self critical.

It’s just acknowledging. Oh, I can do better And I can do better with grace help and and so there’s this Okay, so let me turn that question to you. What do you feel is that the biggest distinction? I guess I’ve already asked that [00:10:00] question.

Bonnie Wiscombe: Well, I, I really like what you’re saying actually about remembering the savior, because I think that is a really big distinction in, in humility versus the self criticism, because the self criticism says I’m not enough and it’s entirely up to me to get to be enough.

That was what was going through my head. It was like, if I could just work harder, if I could just work longer, if I could just be more obedient, then I would be enough. And then it could come to Jesus. And the Lord’s like, no, you’re already not enough. You’re never going to be enough. Right. But instead of that being depressing, it is a, and I’m here for you.

 Instead of like, I love using the example of like a little toddler who’s trying to put their clothes on. And they’ve got their shirt on backwards and they can’t find their arm holes and they’re like ready to melt down and, and you’re just like so much love for them and you know they’re trying and so you’re kind of holding back.

Right? But you’re like, I’m here when you’re ready. I’m here when you’re ready. And they’re like, I can do it myself. That is us all the time. We’re just like, can’t find the arm hole, beating our head against the wall. And we’re like, no, no, no. Don’t help me. And yes, some of that challenge we [00:11:00] have to go through on our own, but Jesus is right there.

He’s like, okay, when you’re ready, I’ll help when you’re ready. Right. I’m right here. I’m ready anytime you are. And sometimes, well, all the time he’s waiting on our agency to say, okay, I’m ready for the help.

Karen Papin: I love that example that you used as a toddler going through that and, and how applicable that is to ourselves.

Because it’s like,

when we look at those kids that we have so much love for,. Heavenly father has that love for us too. So apply that to yourself. Like, it’s just like, hold that love and then bring it over to yourself.

Bonnie Wiscombe: Yes, I love that. I love to see myself as a small child because I would never hold my small children to the standards that I’ve tried to hold myself to before.

 And so if I can pivot it and look at myself, like spiritually, I am a toddler. I am just doing the very best I can. And I know so [00:12:00] little, we all know so little about the grand scheme of things. We know a little bit, but it’s very, very little, right? It brings so much self love.

And that’s you know, right along with this humility concept is self love. And it is something that I struggled with for so, so long because I think I was afraid of the pride. Like, well, if I love myself in my, in my imperfections, well, isn’t that, isn’t that prideful? No, you are loving God’s creature and God’s beautiful daughter or son.

Right. And to deny yourself, that love is to deny God, What we owe him, right? All this love and gratitude. So, stepping into that place of I am imperfect and I love me anyway, and this is exactly where I’m supposed to be and God is going to help me along the way. Let’s go.

Karen Papin: So what you were kind of just mentioning was there’s another distinction there.

And it is between, or tell me more about that distinction between being prideful and understanding your worth.

Bonnie Wiscombe: There [00:13:00] was a talk just a little while ago by Elder Bednar, maybe it was this last conference where he talked about pride and he said, , something along the lines of, if you’re thinking, well, this isn’t for me, I don’t deal with pride.

Then maybe it’s time to look at it.. So I feel like pride is one of those things where if you’re concerned about it, you’re probably okay. Like if you’re just, it’s just something we all watch out for all the time. As soon as we think that’s probably not a problem for me, then maybe it is. So sometimes I think we need to.

tone it down with the I’m so worried about being prideful, right? And instead focus on, what God is asking us to do. Because we won’t have as much time to hyper focus on all our mistakes and all our problems and imperfections if we are out doing the Lord’s work. And that, what I’m realizing now is that is how the adversary was keeping me from being an effective missionary.

Because instead of spending all my time and effort out finding and teaching and sharing the Spirit, I was. internally focused, , so it’s just like anytime you’re feeling miserable, the good [00:14:00] advice is go out and serve, and so many of us probably have lives full of service for our families or our community or our church.

It’s just a matter of stepping into that and allowing that to happen. Ourselves to feel good about it. Like you can go do your work and feel at peace, and feel happy and feel joyful. You don’t have to constantly tell yourself that you’re not enough. Does that make sense?

Karen Papin: And I think also sometimes we can tell ourselves, oh, look at the good I’m doing , , you know,

Yeah. And once again, that’s that internal focus, and that holds us back from serving sometimes. Because we think, oh, I don’t want people to think that I am that I’m trying to show them I’m a good person or, you know, what, whatever it is. And and so that can hold us back from serving as well.

And what are your thoughts on that?

Bonnie Wiscombe: Yeah, I think, I mean, I think we’re all guilty of, of both, right? Of [00:15:00] both being too internally focused. And then when we do do something good, like, well, that felt good. Who should I tell about that? Right. And it’s just a balance, just like everything is right. And again, the Lord will tell us if, if we’re on the right side, it feels a little bit like a teeter totter to me.

I still struggle in both ways. Being given opportunities to serve feels amazing. And then we have to remember, okay, but the right hand is not letting the left hand know what it’s right. We’re just going to sit at peace and know what. What we’ve done, and we don’t have to go tell the neighbors, right, we don’t have to tell everybody.

But at the same time, acknowledging that this is the best solution to being hyper focused on where we lack. And again, let me just say here, that I think too many of us are always trying to do more, Maybe we need to scale back a little bit, right? Especially right now, we’re recording this right around Christmas time, right?

Most moms are just out of their mind with stress and overwhelm because they’ve tried to do too many things, not for themselves, but to make Christmas magic for the kids and for the neighbor gifts and for the, you know, the party at church and everything. So, sometimes the answer is [00:16:00] not more service.

Sometimes the answer is just being at peace with the phase of life that you’re in right now. I feel like that’s a really important reminder.

Karen Papin: That’s a great reminder. I love that, just being at peace with the phase of life you’re in. Thank you for sharing that.

Advice would you give to someone who is struggling with those self critical thoughts?

Bonnie Wiscombe: Like we mentioned before, I would suggest that they check in with the love they have for their own children, their own family members, the love they have for God and to acknowledge that God feels the same thing for them, right?

So that self love, like we were saying, is kind of tricky to find that middle ground where we’re feeling love for ourselves, but also acknowledge that we’re imperfect. And I think that’s the crux of humility. Humility is I have divine worth. I have eternal potential. this incredible person, God in training, and yet so imperfect and need Jesus so much.

 so coming [00:17:00] back to just anytime we can tap into that love, we can remind ourselves that that is for us as well. And one of my favorite hacks, which you only do if you have time to cry for a long time and a lot of tissues is just kneel in prayer and ask the Lord how he feels about you. That one will do it for you every time.

Just be prepared because it’ll come.

Karen Papin: That’s such a good.

Such a good one.

So as someone who has, you know, started your own business, you’re also like coach, and even moments of a lot of moments of being a mother, it takes courage to be able to listen to God’s guidance. I would love to hear some of your thoughts about following , God’s whisperings, , and having that courage to, to listen.

Bonnie Wiscombe: Yeah, this is one of my favorite things to talk about, especially when it comes to entrepreneurship and we can get into that in a second. But [00:18:00] I think that one of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is really understanding how God speaks to us. And for those that are not familiar with the spirit, that sounds a little bit crazy.

Like we know , we’re not. usually seeing angels or having, , incredible visions. They’re just little promptings and everyone gets them differently. I think this is really, really, a critical tool to learn in your life is look back over the times when you have felt God whispering to you and identify how it has come.

Has it come in a hymn? Has it come through a scripture? Has it come as a thought? Has it come as a feeling or someone else’s words, right? And very often it’s a combination of those things. But when we can get really clear on what that is, then we know when God is asking us to do something. And I think we all probably believe that God has a lot more faith in us than we have in ourselves generally.

So he’ll ask us to do things and we’re like, are you kidding me right now? Like I’ve had so many of these experiences, like you’re joking, right? This thing, you know, I’ll just share one of my own personal experiences. I was [00:19:00] definitely prompted to homeschool my kids. I had no plans to homeschool. I didn’t really know any homeschoolers growing up.

A couple that I’d had interactions with felt weird, you know, socially awkward or whatever. I’m like, I’m not doing that. I don’t want my kids home all the time. And it was, a very strong prompting for me, and it came in a variety of ways, right? Like, I met one homeschooler, and then I met another one, and I was very curious about it, and then I was learning, and I’m thinking, Why am I curious about this?

I don’t want to do this, right? Anyway, So, we went down that road, and it has been, so hard and so beautiful. And there are so many blessings that we’ve had. Thanks to that, that I would have never known we were missing out on because that was the path for us., so that’s the first thing, learn how the Lord talks to you.

The second thing is be open to anything. And he will give you some incredible opportunities, but that courage is, is hard to come by sometimes for sure, because he asks us things that we don’t think we’re capable of. Luckily, I think he asks us like one little step at a time. He doesn’t ask us to eat the entire elephant.

He’s like, here, try this bite, you know? But [00:20:00] that’s kind of how it’s typically played out for me.

Karen Papin: That line upon line. Yeah. Line upon line. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Bonnie Wiscombe: Luckily, he knows we can’t, we can’t handle the big picture right at the beginning.

Karen Papin: Yes. Yeah. I’m so thankful for that. So thankful for that.

So you mentioned kind of that line upon line, and how step by step God has helped you be able to have the courage to do some of those bigger things. I’m curious, have there been times where you’ve like questioned, Oh, you’ve gone and you’ve started this process of doing one of the. The things that God has prepared you for.

Have there been times where you’ve questioned, wait, is this actually what I’m supposed to be doing? Like, did I actually, , understand that right? Is this really what God wants me to do?

Bonnie Wiscombe: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And one thing that I’ve noticed is we want so much guidance, right? Because we know that God knows way more than we [00:21:00] do.

And so sometimes we hesitate for a long time until we feel like this is absolutely the right decision. And the fact of the matter is, I think most of the time, there’s probably not a quote unquote right decision. There’s just a decision. I do think some are going to guide us a little bit more towards maximizing our talents and giving us the best life that God could give us.

I see a lot of people. kind of get paralyzed when they think, well, I just don’t know what the right decision is. There might not be one, but let’s just take the business example. If you’re feeling called to start a business, what if you just started one that sounded fun? What if it didn’t have to be the right one?

What if it didn’t have to have all the right factors? What if it didn’t have to have the right audience and the right content, right? What if it was just something that sounded fun. So in my own personal journey of entrepreneurship, that’s how it was like. To 10, 12 years ago when I started my first business.

I just thought this sounds like fun. It didn’t really feel like a calling It didn’t really feel like there was much pressure behind It just kind of sounded fun and then little by little I really did feel [00:22:00] God directing me in one way or another I felt like it was like well, why don’t you try this?

Well, why don’t you try this a couple of times? I was thinking Is this, was that really the thing that I felt because this is weird or it’s not working the way I anticipated, right? Then, then I think, Oh, he’s calling me to this business. What’s going to look like X, Y, Z. And when it doesn’t look like that, then I have those second thoughts, like you’re saying, right?

But the fact of the matter is it’s just, it’s just checking in every now and again, we’re not talking about big moral decisions. These are just life choices. And I think there’s so much that’s going on. Yes, all our life decisions are important, but they’re so much less critical than we think. Sometimes we can just try something and see how it goes.

So sometimes it, the advice I give is just to take the pressure off and see where it leads you.

Karen Papin: I like how you use, kind of change those what ifs , and start using what if, well, what if it does work out? What is it? Right. Yeah. So, I love how you were changing, kind of turning those [00:23:00] questions around and changing them to be more like.

Oh, opening up the possibilities versus closing them down.

Bonnie Wiscombe: Yeah. And what I’ve noticed is that when we allow God to guide us and we’re just like, we kind of loosen the reins on our expectations. It’s amazing what we can build together. Right? Like I’ve gotten to a point in my business building where I was like, I had no idea I would get here, but I see how that played in and I see how that played in and I see how that, right.

I see how I was being led, but all those other experiences. Felt not always super successful. Not always like it was the right thing. Not always like I was heading anywhere purposeful. I just think that God can make so much beauty out of our messes. Why, why not give it a shot? Why not try it out and see where we go?

Right? And with business, I see this a lot too because I coach women who are starting businesses and so many of my clients have said. I don’t know why I’m doing this. I just felt like I should. I’m like, Oh, that’s my favorite. Because there’s a lot of self doubt. There’s a lot of concern. There’s a [00:24:00] lot of, again, the negative what ifs, like what if this bombs or what if people laugh at me or what if, what if, what if, what if.

And in the end, it can always just be so much fun. And what if that doesn’t happen? And what if it is a beautiful thing? And what if you’re able to change people’s lives because of what you choose to do? It’s, it’s so fun to look at it from that perspective, even if we have no idea what we’re doing, because none of us do.

Yeah.

Karen Papin: Well, that brings, that brings the fun in. It’s like, okay, we don’t know what we’re doing. Yeah. Let’s make this a fun experience.

Bonnie Wiscombe: Yeah. Yeah. Letting go of those expectations of, well, it has to look like this has to look like Susie’s business over there. It has to look like this thing I have in my head really limits what we can create.

It limits what God can do with us because we have just a very strict expectation. It’s got to follow that thing. And it sets us up for a lot of disappointment when it does not turn out that way.

Karen Papin: Yeah. I, I also like the question of why not give it a try. Why not? Yeah. What’s the worst thing that can happen?

Bonnie Wiscombe: You bomb? Okay. We can do that. We can fail. [00:25:00] It’s fine.

Karen Papin: Oh, I love that. So how do you keep yourself from getting into, say it doesn’t work out, right? And it’s like, we, we answered that question. Why not? And, and it bombs. So how do you keep yourself from, from like totally getting down on yourself in that situation?

Bonnie Wiscombe: Well, this is why I got certified as a life coach because I, what I found was I had friends come and ask me, well, how’d you start this business? Or how’d you start this? And I would give them some tactical advice and then they would go and do nothing with it. And I was like,

Speaker 3: why?

Bonnie Wiscombe: Why are they not taking action?

What’s going on? Like, do you need more advice? Do you need more help? And I realized, oh, obviously it’s the mind game, right? And so every time, so let’s say we start a business or a venture of some sort, a project, and it doesn’t work out the way we expected. Well, that’s a neutral circumstance, right? We get to decide what to think about that.

We have all the choices in the world. Our brain loves to go to the default, which is, you suck, you’re a [00:26:00] failure, something’s wrong with you, right? You did this wrong, this wasn’t, so many negative thoughts start to bombard us, and we get to choose. Do I want to think about it like that? And I do not. Like, over the years, I’ve had many experiences of thinking about something in a way that made me feel like garbage.

Like, why am I choosing this? I could also choose to think, well, now I know one way to not build a business. Well, now I know one type of marketing that did not work for me. Great. Check that one off the list. Right? There are so many other ways. So that, that’s what I do all day long is like, I sit and talk to clients about how their brain is running the story and telling us, telling them how there’s such a failure and it’s time to quit now because that’s our brain’s job.

Our brain is to keep us safe and keep us in survival mode, right? Not to go out and do scary things. That’s going to make us feel like a failure. That’s, that’s a terrible idea. And we get to just fight, fight back, right? We get to just say, wait a minute though. Did we die? But did we die? No, right? What’s the worst thing that could happen?

You could lose some money. You could lose face a little [00:27:00] bit. You could be a little embarrassed. Okay, we know how to deal with all those things, right? We just have to acknowledge, I’m strong enough to deal with. Anything. Let’s try it. Right? And that takes practice. You’re not going to dive in right at the beginning and get there immediately.

If it takes a little bit of practice and just managing your mind around the failures that you’ve had so far,

Karen Papin: the, the word that keeps, and you mentioned this word earlier in relation to God’s love and it just keeps coming to me as throughout this entire conversation with you is it’s all about expansive.

It’s expansive. And it’s like God’s love is expansive. And, and then now that we’re talking about having that courage to be able to do the hard things and it’s about expansive failure, it’s expansive. and so, I love everything that you’re saying because it’s all, it’s expensive. God is expansive and he’s not restorative.

And sometimes we’d see him as [00:28:00] being restrictive because we have these commandments and we have these rules and yet those rules actually open us up. I love

Bonnie Wiscombe: that concept. And I have to go back to the little kids again because I learned so many lessons as a mother, but you think about your little kids and the lessons they need to learn, right?

They need to learn to crawl and they need to learn to walk and they need to use the toilet and they need to learn how to put their clothes on and all these things that can be so frustrating as a mom. But we would never keep our child in diapers forever just because we knew it was going to be a pain to potty train them.

Sometimes we might be tempted to, but we’re not going to do that. We’re never going to. carry our child around forever on our hip because we know that they’re going to bonk their head a few times when they learn to walk. And that’s what God is doing for us. And yet we hold our little safety so precious and we’re like, Oh, I can’t do that.

It would hurt. It would be embarrassing. I would fail. Yeah. That’s kind of the point of life. The point of life is not to hide in our house and stay safe all the time. The point of life is to [00:29:00] grow, to expand, to see how much we can learn and try in this life. Like what a crime and how sad it would be to get to the other side and be like, well, I did the bare basics because I was terrified.

Right? It’s like, God’s giving you all these opportunities. All of us are so blessed. If you’re listening to this podcast, you are blessed, right? You have a computer or a phone or whatever. You have so many resources available to you. What are we doing with our time and our resources? Are we just locking ourselves inside our minivans in our house to stay safe because it’s scary?

Or are we saying, all right, God, use me. How do you want to use me?

Karen Papin: Good questions there.

I think also this idea, expansive, well, let me go back. One of the questions that I wanted to ask you was how do you discern whether prompting is truly from God? or whether it’s just yourself. And I feel like this expansiveness kind of goes along with that, but I would like to hear your answer to that question.

Bonnie Wiscombe: Yeah, I think that’s a great question. I mean, I very often know it’s [00:30:00] from God because I don’t want to do it. So I have an idea that won’t leave me. And I hate the idea that I know it’s coming from the spirit. It’s not mine. So there’s one, right? If it terrifies you and you keep trying to push it away, It might be time to look at it.

It might be because the Lord is telling you something. But if it’s something that I want to do, that’s a little trickier, right? Because I have a pretty strong personality and I always go out for what I want, right? Like I’m like, I want to do this thing. Let’s go figure it out. Let’s go. I like try to find solutions and push my way through.

So it’s trickier for me personally to listen when the Lord is maybe telling me no. or hold off on something when I want to do it because that’s my personality. For you, it might be different. For somebody listening, it might be different, right? So that takes us back to understanding how the spirit speaks to us.

 but you can always ask, you can always ask God, like, I’m feeling called to do this thing. Is it the right time? So that was a big one for me. I, you know, I’ve had little babies for a long, long time, 20 years to be exact. So many years I was like, I really want to start this thing and dive all in on it.

And I felt God holding me back a little bit because I knew my priority was going to be at home. [00:31:00] But that just came with practice, right? Like trying something and realizing, no, I think this is going to take too much time, conferring with the Lord, listening to the spirit, and seeing if he had a different, a different work for me to do.

But that also takes some humility and takes being willing to, to hear a no, right? So you just have to understand your personality, understand how the spirit speaks to you, be willing to get a yes or a no when you don’t want them.

Karen Papin: For those who are trying to find the courage to follow God’s promptings. What is one thing that they can do, like just right here, just one small and simple thing that they can do to move forward. Yeah,

Bonnie Wiscombe: that’s a great question. I think we very often launch into the big grandiose steps. Like, let’s just say that you’re feeling the call to start a business.

You might think, Oh gosh, well, I need to come up with a name and a, and a file and LLC. And like, you’re thinking of all these big, grandiose steps. And sometimes it’s something as small as what if I just asked my one friend how she started her business? Or what if I just Googled something today? Right? And [00:32:00] so when we allow ourselves to break these promptings into just teeny tiny little baby steps, it becomes so much more manageable and it becomes something that we feel we have control over.

So sometimes being called to do something big feels almost like a train is barreling down on you and you’re like, Oh, I’m not ready. I can’t do this thing. But it’s all within our control. It’s our life still, right? Lord might ask you to do something that’s uncomfortable or it feels like it’s going to cause a lot of growth, which it will, but we still get to control the speed at which we go generally, right?

We can just start small. We can just start with, a little bit of research about this thing we’re thinking about. Or like I said, asking a friend or, journaling a little bit about it. What would be the first step? If I were to tell a friend, if I were to, a friend were to ask me this advice, what would I do first?

What would I tell her to do first? Right. And again, just praying for, for the courage. Okay. Where do I start? Where do I go first? , I have had experiences where I have felt called to do something very scary and I’ve said, okay, I’m willing to do. And then I have no idea where to start. And then I’m like, uh, now what?

So sometimes it is a [00:33:00] little bit of a waiting on the Lord game. Okay. Right. Okay. Well, tell me what comes next. And that is a really interesting interplay, right? How much is the Lord going to tell me? How much do I need to go out and do on my own? And again, understanding your personality. Like I said, I’m, I’m a pusher.

I’m one who goes out and just figures things out quickly. I tend to move a little bit too fast. I don’t think things through all the time. You might be different, right? So if you’re one that hesitates a little bit more, maybe you need to ask for a little bit more courage, a little bit more of the pushing.

 and then to just, yeah, wait and see what happens. It’s a, it’s a fun game.

Karen Papin: And that’s very applicable to even just like callings within the church. Like if you feel overwhelmed by the calling that you’ve been asked to fulfill, it’s like turn to learn and just ask, okay, what is that next? What is that next right step?

Bonnie Wiscombe: Right. Yeah, in that instance, we very, very often overwhelm ourselves with, Well, I saw so and so do it like this, and my mom used to do it like this, so I need to do all these things to be the best [00:34:00] primary song leader or whatever it is. What if it’s not? What if it’s so much simpler, right? I, the Lord, I think, feels very strongly about us not running faster than we can handle, right?

That is an important concept in the gospel. He does not want any of us burned out. He wants us serving each other, but he wants us fulfilled and healthy first of all, right? No one is supposed to give up their mental and physical health in exchange for a calling or for something else he’s asking you to do.

Karen Papin: What is your favorite scripture on the divine worth?

Bonnie Wiscombe: Oh, that is a good question. I know I wrote it down. I think

I sent it to you.

So I was actually thinking a lot about this before our interview.

And so I found the scripture that I love so much, and I actually need to put it up somewhere in my house because I love it. It’s Titus chapter three verses three through six. And it says for we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.[00:35:00]

But after that, the kindness and love of God, our Savior, toward man, appeared, not by works of righteousness, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ, our Savior. So that, to me, is just such a reminder of, when we think we’re imperfect, we’re right.

When we think we can’t do it, we’re right. And yet, we have the Savior to help us.

Karen Papin: So I love that scripture. That is not one that I’ve come across in relation to divine worth yet. , but I do love that because it kind of goes back into like some of the things that we’ve been talking about today where it’s like, have that love for yourself. Yes, there’s that humility and understanding that we’re not, you know, that you are foolish sometimes and disobedient and all those things.

Speaker 6: Right.

Karen Papin: Um, Yeah, there’s that love of God and and so that’s great. Thank you so much for pointing that out. That is, yeah, I like that one. I’ve related to [00:36:00] yet to divine worth. So that’s awesome. Thank you.

Is there anything else that you would like to share with us about divine worth

Bonnie Wiscombe: know, I think that there is a reason. Why we can’t see the full picture. I mean, I know there’s a reason God gave us the veil for a reason, right? We don’t probably understand all of it But I think there’s a really important reason why we can’t see the full picture of our divine worth I think I don’t know.

I think we’d kind of be blown away like it would be Almost distracting to sit here on earth in this tea less your world and like go about our day, right? But we can sometimes see it in other people For some reason that’s a lot easier to see in other people in our children and our spouses and the people that we interact with we can sometimes see those glimmers of Divine worth of eternal potential.

That’s that’s how I see it more than anything, right that They can become these incredible people, and so can we. I think it’s harder to see it in ourselves because we know [00:37:00] everything about us, right? We know all our inner thoughts and feelings, and we know all the times that we’ve thought nasty things about our neighbor, and we, we know all the times that we’ve screamed at our kids, and we know everything.

And yet, so does God. And He still tells us. That he loves us unconditionally, which again is a little bit hard for us to comprehend as mere mortals. We just don’t understand that. So I think sometimes we just need to step into not understanding and going, I don’t get it, but you’re, but God is telling me he loves me unconditionally and that I have divine worth.

So I’m going to believe him. I think that’s what it, what it ends up with is that it doesn’t matter if we know how it doesn’t matter if we, we understand it, but are we willing to believe God? Because he’s told us in no uncertain terms, multiple times, how valuable we are, and what , our worth is and are we going to believe him?

And I, I’m choosing to because it feels a lot better than the alternative.

Karen Papin: Yeah. Oh, that’s so true. We have a telestial view, but we’re preparing to receive that celestial view.

It’s hard. [00:38:00] Yeah. So beautiful. And I’m so thankful that he believes in me.

Mm hmm. I love that. Well, Bonnie, thank you so much for coming on here today.

I have one more question for you. And that is, how can people find you?

Bonnie Wiscombe: Yeah. Well, people can find me on my website, bonniewiscombe. com or on Instagram, Facebook, I’m just bonniewiscombe. And if you are interested in starting a business or you’ve had thoughts like that, you’re always welcome to come join me during my office hours.

I do free office hours every Thursday where you can come ask any question or get a little coaching if you feel like there’s a nudge towards something and you’re feeling terrified and like you need some advice. Come on over. I’d love to chat.

Karen Papin: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Bonnie. It’s been great getting to know you and, and hearing your thoughts.

Same.

Bonnie Wiscombe: So nice, Karen. Thanks for having me. 

If you have found this podcast to be a light, please share it with others and or leave a review, which helps others find the podcast as well. To learn more about your divine worth and potential, you [00:39:00] can download some free scripture cards focused on your worth at karenpapin.com/scripturecards.

That’s K A R E N P A P I N. com forward slash scripture cards. You are of worth. You have a purpose. The Lord loves you and he believes in you. And only you can make the impact on this world that you are meant to make. Join me next time as we talk more about divine worth and potential.